[Vision2020] "Hard to Get Discussion Going?" Re: Bill McKibben Commentary Re: 10:10 "no pressure" video
Paul Rumelhart
godshatter at yahoo.com
Tue Oct 5 22:24:15 PDT 2010
I would classify that more as simply having fun with a message that has
been heard by nearly everyone, some too many times to count.
I take your point, though, about having to work to get your message
heard, especially if you feel your message is a) important and b) not
being taken as seriously as you would like. I think the 10:10 people
were trying out the old "no publicity is bad publicity" idea.
Apparently not to great success, given that they are apparently trying
to take it back. The video made me think they were a little desperate
to get their message out.
Paul
Ron Force wrote:
> How do you get people's attention in the constant bombardment of media
> messages? By being outrageous, or in bad taste (eg, Lady GaGa)? Here's
> a clever ploy that brought the airline all kinds of grief from the
> usual PC enforcement squads:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lqh8e2KYIrU&feature=player_embedded
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lqh8e2KYIrU&feature=player_embedded>
>
>
> Ron Force
> Moscow Idaho USA
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
> *To:* Ted Moffett <starbliss at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* Vision2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> *Sent:* Tue, October 5, 2010 4:59:56 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] "Hard to Get Discussion Going?" Re: Bill
> McKibben Commentary Re: 10:10 "no pressure" video
>
>
> Actually, I was looking for your opinion (and the opinions of others on
> this list). If I had wanted to know what Bill McKibben thought about
> it, I'd either have asked him or googled it.
>
> Myself, I wasn't really all that shocked by the video, rather I saw it
> as an opportunity to ask the question "how far is too far". I did think
> it was in bad taste, but I'm generally a fan of black humor. That kind
> of humor works best, though, when there is some truth to it. If we
> really are talking about the possible end of the human race (which I
> don't believe), then how far *is* too far?
>
> I have given up on asking people to watch the video, though.
>
> Paul
>
> Ted Moffett wrote:
> > *Paul Rumelhart* godshatter at yahoo.com <http://yahoo.com>
> >
> <mailto:vision2020%40moscow.com?Subject=%5BVision2020%5D%20%22Age%20of%20Stupid%22%20Director%20a%20Woman%2C%0A%20Not%20a%20%22Guy%22%20Re%3A%20%2010%3A10%20%22no%20pressure%22%20video&In-Reply-To=921570.20683.qm%40web46102.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>wrote:
> >
> > http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2010-October/071795.html
> >
> > /Mon Oct 4 16:56:02 PDT 2010/
> > Believe me, I'm as big a Monty Python fan as anybody.
> >
> > I'd still like to see a discussion about how far is too far, though.
> >
> > Why is it so hard to get a discussion going here?
> > ---------------------------
> > I offered the commentary, sent again below, regarding the "No
> > Pressure" film from author, professor and promoter of the
> > http://www.350.org effort to lower greenhouse gas emissions, Bill
> > McKibben, and given what I have read about this film, I agree with
> > McKibben. I did attempt to view the film, but the URL requested a
> > log-in. I suppose the URL requested a log-in because of efforts to
> > block viewing of the film originating from the "10:10" campaign, given
> > the widespread negative reaction.
> >
> > Apparently, you don't think Bill McKibben's commentary worth
> > commenting on, at least as far as what I have read on Vision2020...
> > But the fact I posted it certainly qualifies as an effort to "...get a
> > discussion going..." McKibben states rather unequivocally that the
> > film in question goes "too far," though he did not use those exact
> words.
> >
> > While on the topic of subjects on which it is hard to get a discussion
> > going, below are two posts I authored from recent months that
> > specifically addressed issues regarding climate science, that you has
> > previously commented on, that as far as I have read on Vision2020,
> > unless I missed it, have never received a response from you.
> >
> > I also sometimes feel frustrated by the lack of discussion on this
> > list regarding important subjects, but also appreciate the voluntary
> > nature of participation here... So respond or not, as you wish.
> >
> > In the first post below, I emphatically disagreed with your statement
> > that the list of estimates of climate sensitivity sourced from
> > Levenson's research, from the work of many scientists for over a
> > century, are "all over the board," and explore other critical issues
> > regarding climate sensitivity:
> >
> >
> > [Vision2020] Exploring Implications of Levenson's List of Estimates
> > of Climate Sensitivity
> >
> > http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2010-July/070882.html
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------
> >
> > In the following post with the subject heading mentioning Edward's
> > well reviewed book, "A Vast Machine," a must read for anyone who
> > thinks they understand how data is gathered on weather and climate, I
> > made the following statement regarding one of your posts:
> >
> > "Regarding the DiPuccio "weblog" on ocean heat, for a self described
> > "skeptic," you are remarkably unskeptical when it comes to presenting
> > "scientific" statements as reliable, from sources that do not
> > represent a comprehensive and balanced view of all the published peer
> > reviewed science on a given issue."
> >
> >
> > [Vision2020] MIT Press: Paul N. Edwards "A Vast Machine: Computer
> > Models, Climate Data, and the Politics of Global Warming"
> >
> > http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2010-September/071648.html
> >
> > On 10/4/10, *Ted Moffett* <starbliss at gmail.com
> <mailto:starbliss at gmail.com>
> > <mailto:starbliss at gmail.com <mailto:starbliss at gmail.com>>> wrote:
> >
> >
> > http://climateprogress.org/2010/10/01/bill-mckibben-days-that-suck/
> >
> >
> > (A response to the "No Pressure" Video)
> >
> > October 1, 2010
> >
> > /Bill McKibben — some-time guest blogger and the author most
> > recently of the must-read
> >
> <http://climateprogress.org/2010/05/22/review-bill-mckibben-book-eaarth/>
> > book ///Eaarth — has asked me to post this response to a noxious
> > video that some irresponsible folks in the UK put together.//
> >
> > I just climbed off an airplane at Boston’s Logan Airport. The day
> > began in Monterrey, Mexico–and though I was tired, I was also
> > feeling pretty good. Our big day of action on October 10th has
> > been building to a crescendo: we yesterday broke our record from
> > last year, registering more than 5500 actions for the big Global
> > Work Party.
> >
> > But I’d barely turned on my computer when that good feeling turned
> > to a kind of quiet nausea. There were emails from people all
> > saying the same thing: Have you seen this? This was a gross video
> > making its way around Youtube, purporting to show people being
> > blown up for not believing in climate change. It’s been “pulled”
> > from Youtube by its creators, the British climate group 10:10, but
> > of course nothing is ever really “pulled” from Youtube. If you
> > want to watch it bad enough, I’m pretty sure you can find it. Or
> > you can look at the stories by climate deniers assailing it as the
> > latest example of eco-fascism.
> > The climate skeptics can crow. It’s the kind of stupidity that
> > hurts our side, reinforcing in people’s minds a series of
> > preconceived notions, not the least of which is that we’re
> > out-of-control and out of touch — not to mention off the wall, and
> > also with completely misplaced sense of humor.
> >
> > We put out a statement at 350.org <http://350.org>
> <http://350.org/> saying we had
> > nothing to do with it–we didn’t see it till it had made its way
> > around the web, and as soon as we did we let people know we
> > thought it was disgusting. We’ve known the creators for
> > years–they put out a statement apologizing for their lapse. But
> > it’s the kind of mistake that will hurt efforts. What makes it so
> > depressing is that it’s the precise opposite of what the people
> > organizing around the world for October 10 are all about. In the
> > first place, they’re as responsible as it’s possible to be:
> > They’ll spend the day putting up windmills and solar panels,
> > laying out bike paths and digging community gardens. And in the
> > second place, they’re doing it because they realize kids are
> > already dying from climate change, and that many many more are at
> > risk as the century winds on. Killing people is, literally, the
> > last thing we want.
> >
> > There’s no question that crap like this will cast a shadow, for a
> > time, over our efforts and everyone else who’s working on global
> > warming. We’re hard at work, as always, but we’re doing it today
> > with a sunk and sad feeling.
> >
> > – Bill McKibben
> >
> > /JR: The video is beyond tasteless and should be widely
> > condemned. Individual anti-science, pro-pollution disinformers,
> > of course, routinely promote hate speech but you rarely see anyone
> > on their side denounces them. I’m speaking of people like Anthony
> > Watts, with his utterly offensive comments on the Purported
> > eco-terrorist who was shot and killed by police
> >
> <http://climateprogress.org/2010/09/01/eco-terrorist-shot-and-killed-by-police-wattsupwiththat/>.
>
> > And of course there’s the Swift Boat smearer (see “UK Guardian
> > slams Morano for cyber-bullying and for urging violence against
> > climate scientists
> >
> <http://climateprogress.org/2010/07/15/uk-guardian-slams-morano-for-cyber-bullying-and-for-urging-violence-against-climate-scientists/>“).
>
> > And the worst of all is Lord Monckton **(see Monckton repeats and
> > expands on his charge that those who embrace climate science are
> > “Hitler youth” and fascists
> >
> <http://climateprogress.org/2009/12/12/tvmob-hate-speech-lord-monckton-hitler-youth-fascist-climate-activists/>)*.*/
> <http://climateprogress.org/2009/12/12/tvmob-hate-speech-lord-monckton-hitler-youth-fascist-climate-activists/%3E%29*.*/>
> >
> > */None of this excuses that disgusting video. But the difference
> > is that those who are trying to preserve a livable climate and
> > hence the health and well-being of our children and billions of
> > people this century quickly denounce the few offensive
> > over-reaches of those who claim to share our goals — but those
> > trying to destroy a livable climate, well, for them lies and hate
> > speech are the modus operandi, so such behavior is not only
> > tolerated, but encouraged./*
> >
> > /Please keep the comments civil. And no, I’m not linking to the
> > video. You can find it only if you want.
> > --------------------------------------------/
> >
> > /Vision2020 Post: Ted Moffett/
> >
> > On 10/3/10, *Paul Rumelhart* <godshatter at yahoo.com
> <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>
> > <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>>> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I got the gender of the director of "the Age of Stupid" wrong.
> > My apologies.
> >
> > If any one out there is brave enough to watch this video that
> > is intended for mass consumption by the public at large,
> > please do so and let me know what you think. If you can spare
> > some time from your researches on climate change, of course.
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > Ted Moffett wrote:
> >
> > The director of "the Age of Stupid" is not a guy, given a
> > meaning of this word to be "a male." When this film came
> > out last year, I repeatedly posted information to
> > Vision2020 about it, specifically referring to the
> > director, Franny Armstrong, who also directed such
> > noteworthy films as "McLibel" and "Drowned Out." Read
> > about Ms. Armstrong and her film making efforts at website
> > below
> > http://www.spannerfilms.net/people/franny_armstrong
> > ---------------------- Some people toss the word "guy"
> > around in a gender neutral way, as in "you guys" referring
> > to a group of men and/or women. But when specifically
> > referring to the director of a film, to call them a "guy"
> > I think in most people's minds indicates they are a male.
> > I did not watch the video you posted a link to, given I
> > have far more professional and in depth sources to spend
> > my limited time studying, regarding what is required to
> > address lowering CO2 emissions. However, I did a quick
> > search on the 10:10 campaign and found a different video
> > on YouTube regarding "The Guardian's 10:10 climate change
> > campaign," which I did not watch either, but I suspect
> > refers to the major United Kingdom newspaper "The Guardian."
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=314UCvMmgrU
> > ---------------
> > For anyone serious about considering plans to lower CO2
> > emissions to address anthropogenic climate warming, I
> > recommend study of the following plan from the Earth
> > Policy Institute for lowering global emissions 80 percent
> > by 2020, or read NASA climate scientist James Hansen's
> > book, 'Storms of My Grandchildren." There are numerous
> > professional and in depth sources addressing this problem,
> > but these two sources are certainly worth consideration.
> > The Earth Policy Institute has discussed "tax shifting"
> > to encourage less reliance on fossil fuels, and James
> > Hansen has advocated a "fee and dividend" plan.
> > Peculiarly, these alternative plans to "cap and trade"
> > are rarely discussed in mainstream media, as far as I have
> > noted. James Hansen has specifically stated that "cap and
> > trade" is a flawed approach.
> > I have posted information on the Earth Policy Institute
> > plan and James Hansen's plans repeatedly, yet I do not
> > recall anyone on this list ever responding "onlist"
> > specifically to these sources:
> > Information on Earth Policy Institute's "80 by 2020" plan:
> > http://www.earth-policy.org/datacenter/pdf/80by2020doc.pdf
> > James Hansen on "fee and dividend" plan as discussed in a
> > New York Times article "Cap and Fade." The article title
> > makes it rather clear that Hansen does not promote "cap
> > and trade:"
> > http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/07/opinion/07hansen.html
> > ------------------------------------------
> > Vision2020 Post: Ted Moffett
> > On 9/30/10, *Paul Rumelhart* <godshatter at yahoo.com
> <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>
> > <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com
> <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>> <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com
> <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>
> > <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com
> <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>>>> wrote:
> >
> > I just stumbled upon this (may contain disturbing
> images):
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UHN3zHoYA0
> >
> > It's a video about the "10:10 campaign" that encourages
> > people to cut
> > their carbon footprints by 10%, with a rather remarkable
> > punishment for
> > those who aren't willing to do so.
> >
> > This isn't a small-time production, either. It's
> > directed by the guy
> > who directed The Age of Stupid, it's written by the
> > screenwriters that
> > wrote "Four Weddings", it has a soundtrack provided by
> > Radiohead,
> > and it
> > has a cameo by Gillian Anderson of X Files fame.
> >
> > While I'm not blind to the humor involved, is this
> > really the
> > message we
> > want to get across? Play ball or die? I mean, I'm
> > willing to
> > conserve
> > energy and reduce gasoline usage without death threats.
> > I just don't
> > think that "climate change" is necessarily the
> > Armageddon it's
> > made out
> > to be, and this makes me wonder about the people
> > pushing that
> > particular
> > agenda.
> >
> > Anyway, take a look and let us know what you think.
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > P. S. I'm *really* hoping that Ted didn't get issued
> > one of those red
> > buttons...
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
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