[Vision2020] rosy future for rabid liberal at loose ends?

Sun Nov 7 17:07:32 PST 2010

I understand perfectly well that the thoughts you expressed were YOUR OPINION. They were remarkably similar to the opinions Rose expressed last week. And those regularly expressed by Hanson, Deco, Clevenger, Smith, Cambell, etc. along with many others who have nothing to do with this forum. I get it. FNC is evil. People who watch it are "less intelligent" then those who look to more progressive news outlets for information. The information they ingest is inaccurate and their understanding is in some way flawed. I understand that this is your opinion. It seems to be a popular one and you're entirely welcome to it.

Please allow me to highlight MY OPINION. It is that when the progressive fall back position in any conversation is a variation on "Conservatives, whether it be those on FOX or those who watch it, are stupid" very little that is productive will come of it.

Picture this:

John: I think we should replace the roof this year, its starting to leak.

Martha: I agree.

John: I think we should use metal.

Martha: I think we should use cedar shake.

John:  Metal will last longer, be less expensive, and be more fire resistant.

Martha: You're a moron!

John: ...?

Where do you think that conversation is going?

g

From: keely emerinemix 
Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2010 3:57 PM
To: jampot at roadrunner.com ; vision2020 at moscow.com 
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] rosy future for rabid liberal at loose ends?

It would seem to me that you would understand that what you've highlighted is MY OPINION.  I have offered to you an opinion -- my own -- and my hope would be that you would respond to it with an opinion that highlights where we agree or where we disagree.  Instead, you've apparently decided that my having the opinion, which you obviously disagree with, is the issue here.  

THAT seems to be, in my mind, a pretty big barrier to productive conversation.  

Keely
www.keely-prevailingwinds.com

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From: jampot at roadrunner.com
To: kjajmix1 at msn.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] rosy future for rabid liberal at loose ends?
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 00:59:20 -0700

" I find Fox' analysis and perspective to be much less intelligent, accurate, and reasonable than that of even the most strident MSNBC pundits."

Really? Well there we have it then. The unmistakable essence of the progressive mind set and perhaps one of the the biggest barriers to productive conversation. The elitist (why does that ring a bell?) notion that they just must be right because they imagine that those with whom they disagree are ever so much less intelligent and unreasonable then themselves.  Is it any wonder that common ground is so difficult to reach when the opening salvo from the left is so utterly dismissive and contemptuous? When newly elected Republican members of congress are seated and they feel precious little inclination to compromise with their democrat counterparts it most assuredly won't be difficult to understand the reason why.

g

From: keely emerinemix 
Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 10:30 PM
To: jampot at roadrunner.com ; vision2020 at moscow.com 
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] rosey future for rabid liberal at loose ends?

Truthfully, I'd have to say that it's the "established" media, print and broadcast, who bring the most bias-free coverage, specifically NBC (my preferred network source), ABC, and CBS; and Time and Newsweek.  Now, I love Mother Jones and The Progressive, but I wouldn't presume to try to persuade you that they're editorially even-handed.  And they don't need to be, just as Fox and MSNBC don't need to be perfectly unbiased -- they offer analysis and commentary from differing perspectives, which is not only obvious but also by design.  Nonetheless, I read them, just as I read (courtesy of Roger) The National Review and the Wall Street Journal.  It's good to get all sides of an argument, but it's also important to discern what's news and what's discussion.  They both have their place, but they're not at all the same thing.  

Sadly, it seems that fewer and fewer Americans understand that.  And I think that of the two, MSNBC and Fox, it's Fox that more portrays itself as a "news" organization, and it isn't; putting it another way, I think Fox viewers are far more likely to feel suspicious of the networks as well as to believe -- sincerely but mistakenly -- that what they get from Fox is news, as opposed to commentary.  Further,  I find Fox' analysis and perspective to be much less intelligent, accurate, and reasonable than that of even the most strident MSNBC pundits.  I prefer MSNBC's Rachel Maddow to Keith Olbermann, and Olbermann to virtually anyone ever featured on Fox, but not even I would suggest that MSNBC is without bias.  I just think it's much less without fear-mongering and jingoist bigotry than Fox, and that's important to me.

Keely
www.keely-prevailingwinds.com

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From: jampot at roadrunner.com
To: kjajmix1 at msn.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] rosey future for rabid liberal at loose ends?
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 19:47:10 -0700

And I would suggest that you are in error. While I don't for a second believe that what is broadcast on programs such as The Factor, Glenn Beck's show, or Hannity qualifies as news, I don't believe that the brass at FOX would try and have you buy it either. On the other hand segments such as News Watch, Fox News Weekend, America's Newsroom, and Fox Report with Shepard Smith are as objective as anything on broadcast television. I also believe that On the Record with Greta Van Sustren (no conservative, her) and Fox News Sunday with Chris Wallace does a good job of delivering objective information with balanced analysis. Dismissing FOX because you disagree with a few of their talking heads is as silly as a conservative rejecting everything reported in the NYT because of its demonstrated editorial slant. If there is a news source that brings absolutely no baggage to its reporting I'd love to hear about it.

g

From: keely emerinemix 
Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 6:47 PM
To: jampot at roadrunner.com ; vision2020 at moscow.com 
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] rosey future for rabid liberal at loose ends?

Hey, if Olbermann knowingly violated his employers' policies, he got what he ought to have gotten.  No scandal there.

But the question of  Fox News being "fair and balanced" obscures the real point, which is whether or not Fox News is really "news."  I don't think we need to have the lexicography battle that we've been having over "to bear," but no one who's ever produced, studied, or benefited from real journalism -- real news gathering and news reporting -- would seriously suggest that Fox is "news" in any way, shape, or form.  

Fox News is nothing more than "Open Mic Night" in a room full of culturally insecure, frightened and naive Christian conservatives trying to earn the respect of the swaggering rich, important guys across the bar.  The rich guys drink better beer and drive more expensive cars, but the Religious Right has some really attractive sisters they bring to the ball, and that makes everyone in the room fast friends -- to the enrichment of the guys operating the microphone.

Keely
www.keely-prevailingwinds.com

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From: jampot at roadrunner.com
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 12:01:46 -0700
Subject: [Vision2020] rosey future for rabid liberal at loose ends?

Anybody care to speculate on how long it takes for unceremoniously sacked  MSNBC hack, Keith Olbermann to swallow what little pride he may have left and accept a position along side Alan Colmes, Mara Liasson, Juan Williams, Bob Beckel, Kirsten Powers, Susan Estrich, Tammy Bruce, Pat Caddell, etc. over at what appears to be the only fair and balance news source, FOX? The idea of watching him on Sean Hannity's show makes me laugh just thinking about it.

g

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