[Vision2020] Say What?

[lfalen]

Garrett
Not a whole lot to disagree with here.
Roger
-----Original message-----
From: Garrett Clevenger garrettmc at verizon.net
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2010 12:37:22 -0700
To: lfalen at turbonet.com
Subject: Re: RE: [Vision2020] Say What?

> Roger writes:
> 
> "In this view the extreme right and extreme left would meet."
> 
> 
> I tend to think of the left/right debate in this way.  It would be easy to simplify things and say you're either on the left or right, but that's unrealisitic.
> 
> Both the left and right want government. I disagree that the right is somehow  against government. It's the utilization of government that may differ.
> 
> Most people want the same things: love and security.  When we feel threatened, we want to defend themselves. As civilized people we form government to do promote our well-being (or perpetuate the well-being of the status quo)
> 
> I think its money and morals (or greed and god) that change how that government operates which makes things very dynamic.  People form parties to try to stablize their grasp on power and use scapegoats to form enemies to rally against, whether based on truth or distortion. Thus you have the left and the right fighting over issues, using misinformation ideological faith to keep that going.
> 
> For whatever reason, we aren't all on the same page. Misinformation keeps us from seeing things the same.  It's probably impossible for everybody to know the Truth at this point, but as individuals we can be open minded enough to not form firm judgements and thus have flexibility in our politics.
> 
> I think if people get accurate information, their views on issues will change.
> 
> That's the circular nature of left/right.
> 
> 
> While I may be viewed as being a "lefty" I in no way share beliefs of nazis. From the political compass test I took I fall right where Ghandi apparently was (so I can't complain) and the nazis are on the opposite end. That feels right to me.
> 
> Roger can think nazis are from the left based on his definitions, but in my head, nazi's are closer to the right.
> 
> But I don't like the left/right label, so let's just say nazis were arrogant, power hungry humans who acted like army ants destroying all in their path.
> 
> I think it had more to do with their animal nature than political position.
> 
> Garrett
> 
> 
> Apr 9, 2010 12:00:06 PM, lfalen at turbonet.com wrote:
> 
> ===========================================
> 
> Saundra
> >I do not know how you can continue to insist that the Nazis were on the right, 
> >when the basic difference between left and right is that the  left believes in varying 
> >degrees of government control and the right believes in free markets and individual 
> >freedom to varying degrees.There are of course some exceptions to this as some but 
> >not all of those on the left believe in freedom in thing regarding sex and some 
> >but not all of those on the right would like to regulate it. It gets confusing as 
> >some on the lett want to prohibit any expression of religion in the schools, while 
> >some on the right would like to prohibit the teaching of evolution or demand that 
> >Intelligent Design be taught in science classes. The basics though is a matter of 
> >economics. You might have some grounds for your position based on the fact that 
> >some dictators allow for the free market to operate. They are not on the right as 
> >far as individual freedom is concerned. When I took political science from Robert 
> >Hosack, he
> >described the various ideologies as a circle rather than a straight line. In 
> >this view the extreme right and extreme left would meet. If you except that view. 
> >you would again have a point.
> >The left is very good at taking things that are perceived as bad and hanging 
> >it on those that the disagree with(Nazi, racist, etc). and taking those things that 
> >have a favorable connotation( liberal and progressive) and adopting it for themselves. 
> > This was born out very well in the last election. When anyone who disagreed with 
> >Obama  was labeled a racist. This had the desired effect of making some people reluctant 
> >to comment. Stalin said "If you repeat a lie often enough it becomes the truth" 
> >At least the perceivrd truth. This is what is taking place here. The left is hypocritical 
> >when they said "We won, shut up and except it" They did not have this 
> >position when Bush won as they should not have.
> >Roger
> > 
> >-----Original message-----