[Vision2020] Say What?

[Donovan Arnold]

Oh, really, OK, I get right on it, Hanni. Too bad my point was way over your head so you wouldn't waste your precious time.
 
Best Regards,
 
Donovan
 


--- On Tue, 3/31/09, Tom Hansen <idahotom at hotmail.com> wrote:


From: Tom Hansen <idahotom at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Say What?
To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com, "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
Cc: "Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Date: Tuesday, March 31, 2009, 7:37 AM




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Courtesy of the US Department of State at:
 
http://www.state.gov/s/l/treaty/authorities/international/index.htm
 
---------------------------------------------
 

International Legal Authorities


Treaties are governed by international law and are a primary source of international law. Treaties play an important role in the orderly conduct of relations among states, particularly following World War II. In order for treaties to perform this role, internationally recognized rules concerning treaties have been developed. 

The Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties, concluded at Vienna on May 23, 1969 (VCLT), sets forth rules concerning the making, operation, suspension, and termination of treaties. The VCLT opened for signature in Vienna in May 1969, and it entered into force on January 27, 1980. Currently, over 90 countries have signed or acceded to the VCLT. 

The VCLT was signed for the United States on April 24, 1970, and President Nixon transmitted the treaty to the Senate for its advice and consent to ratification on November 22, 1971.  The VCLT remains before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. The United States has not ratified the VCLT and thus is not legally bound by its provisions. Nevertheless, the United States follows many of the rules in the VCLT in the conduct of its day-to-day work on treaties.

States enter into treaties not only with other states, but also with other subjects of international law (in particular, international organizations). International organizations enter into treaties with each other. These treaties are not covered by the VCLT, but are the subject of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties between States and International Organizations or between International Organizations, 1986 (VCLTSIO). This treaty is not yet in force, although many of its provisions are based on those in the VCLT and have been adapted for international organizations.




 
---------------------------------------------
 
Note to Arnie:  I invite you . . . No, I ENCOURAGE you to browse the following links and enumerate those treaties that you believe are in violation of the US Constitution.
 
Treaties in Force.
 
1)  Bilateral Treaties (as of November 1, 2007).
 
http://www.state.gov/s/l/treaty/treaties/2007/section1/index.htm
 
PDF File
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/83046.pdf
 
2)  Multilateral Treaties (as of January 1, 2007).
 
PDF File
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/89668.pdf
 
---------
 
If you should happen to find any treaties (either bilateral or multilateral) that are in violation of the US Constitution, could you send them (along with your comments) to Secretary of State Clinton.  She's all uppity about enorcing these things and it would be truly a major DAD-GUMMIT if she's is enforcing anything illegal.
 
Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho
 

"For a lapsed Lutheran born-again Buddhist pan-Humanist Universalist Unitarian Wiccan Agnostic like myself there's really no reason ever to go to work."
 
- Roy Zimmerman


  


Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 07:11:50 -0700
From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Say What?






Sunil,
 
If a treaty violates the Constitution, it isn't a valid treaty is it?
 
Best Regards,
 
Donovan

--- On Tue, 3/31/09, Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:


From: Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Say What?
To: 
Cc: "vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Date: Tuesday, March 31, 2009, 6:51 AM




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Donovan,

Is it correct that you cannot cite a legal basis for your position that we are allowed to violate international law?  So far you've offered examples of instances where we have apparently done so, but have not offered a reason or rationale that makes such actions legal.

Is it your position that it is legal for us to do so?  If so, how? 

I'm talking here of violations of treaties that we have adopted, and therefore are US laws, under our constitution.

Sunil

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