[Vision2020] Draft Ordinance Banning Smoking in Bars

Thu Jun 25 21:08:17 PDT 2009

Question:  "Since the Ayotollah Lambert wants to extend the reach of this
Ordinance to include private clubs, will the owners of these private
Clubs, owners that paid lots and lots of their own hard-earned money to
Purchase these private clubs, be restricted to those same snow banks?"

Tom - do you not think anyone other than "private Clubs" did not put in any
of their "hard-earned money" to purchase ANY club....."

-------Original Message-------

From: Tom Hansen
Date: 6/24/2009 11:41:56 AM
To: Saundra Lund
Cc: 'Moscow Vision 2020'
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Draft Ordinance Banning Smoking in Bars

Excellent and extremely thought-provoking, Saundra.

Saundra stated:

"Oh, and to offer rebuttal, I certainly hope bar & tavern owners will take
a look at exactly where banishing smokers to more than 20 feet from the
door will put their customers."

During the coldest of winter months, twenty feet from any door will place
these customers in the snow.

Question:  Since the Ayotollah Lambert wants to extend the reach of this
ordinance to include private clubs, will the owners of these private
clubs, owners that paid lots and lots of their own hard-earned money to
purchase these private clubs, be restricted to those same snow banks?

Book 'em, Dano!

Side bar:  If this ordinance should go into effect, I offer . . .

TEN DOLLARS to anybody that provides me a photograph of any member of our
city council or city staff violating the ordinance, FIFTEEN DOLLARS if it
is Bill Lambert.

Seeya round town, Moscow.

Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho

> Most striking to me was listening to the two council members become
> positively drunk with power!  As suspected, they aren't happy with just
> banning smoking in bars, they also want to ban smoking in private clubs to
> provide a level playing field.  <snort>  Public events in public parks,
> and
> public parks,  were mentioned, and Lambert actually said he'd like to see
> smoking banned everywhere but in private homes.
>
> Of course, their interest in sticking their busy noses into private clubs
> to
> "level the playing field" makes the point no one on the that side of the
> issue wants to admit:  that there are enough adults interested in engaging
> in LAWFUL adult activities (smoking & drinking) that they fear passing
> their
> ordinance *will* hurt local businesses.  I doubt, though, either of them
> thought of that as their comments were stunningly uneducated and
> uninformed.
>
> That concern also conflicts with Lambert's opinion (an opinion, BTW,
> that's
> been proven wrong with studies time & again) that passing this ordinance
> will *increase* business for bars.  One thing I guess we can count on from
> them is inconsistency  :-)  Perhaps Lambert should have a chat with
> Pullman
> bar owners to find out the reality rather than trying to convince others
> of
> the validity of his wishful thinking.  It seems that in Pullman, as in
> other
> locales where smoking bans in bars have been passed, those enticing
> promises
> from non-smokers never quite materialize to increase the business lost by
> excluding smokers.
>
> Indeed, some studies identify bars and taverns as ***more than twice as
> likely*** to suffer adverse revenue effects from smoking bans than other
> venues.  Interesting, isn't it, that factoid hasn't been disclosed in the
> current discussion?  It's one thing to have an anti-smoking agenda, but
> it's
> a completely different thing to be dishonest about the realistic
> anticipated
> effects on our local businesses, IMHO.  But, perhaps that's another part
> of
> the agenda???  One person during the Admin Committee meeting mentioned how
> well the ban has worked in Ireland -- I suspect the owners of the 400+
> small-town pubs that went belly-up following the ban might dispute his
> assessment.
>
> So.  What's next?  What other lawful activities that offend their
> sensibilities will they want to legislate out of existence?
>
> Let's see . . . obesity is either the #1 or #2 cause of premature death in
> the US depending on what study you read.  Perhaps we should move next to
> make it illegal to sell or serve high calorie or high fat foods to those
> who
> are obese?
>
> And, let's not forget that red meat consumption can cause/contribute to
> heart disease as well as hunger in this nation & around the world.
> Perhaps
> we should restrict consumption to private homes as well -- think of the
> health cost savings!
>
> And, frankly, I think Lambert may be onto something, although not with
> respect to smoking but rather to alcohol.  Due to the serious public
> safety
> & health risks of excess alcohol consumption, let's restrict consumption
> to
> private homes.
>
> In any case, I find it incredibly disturbing that the Admin Committee is
> so
> gung-ho about this -- increasing Big Government restrictions on the
> hospitality industry.  One might safely interpret their interest as either
> not trusting the market *or* wanting to force their social views on the
> rest
> of us to the detriment of local small business owners.  But, I guess that
> shouldn't be surprising because that's certainly not the first time we've
> see this kind of thing from this particular council, is it?
>
> The "second-hand smoke is bad for employees" red herring is particularly
> offensive given that they don't give a rip about making ***meaningful***
> changes (you know, inconveniences like living wages, health insurance,
> etc)
> for all local workers.  When it comes to those significant issues, they
> are
> consistently unwilling to put their money where their mouths are . . . but
> I
> guess their interest in this smoking ban just goes to show that their
> concerns about the financial implications of laws they want is limited to
> only certain kinds of businesses -- they are quite willing jeopardize bar
> &
> tavern owners and retail businesses whole bending over backwards to
> accommodate other agendas.
>
> I'm with you, Wayne -- even though I don't have a dog in this fight, I'm
> definitely going to remember the punch-drunk power comments that have been
> made thus far at the next election, and I'll continue to listen to the
> discussion for more red flags about the scary interest of some in the
> council to throw some of our local businesses & residents under the bus.
>
> Oh, and to offer rebuttal, I certainly hope bar & tavern owners will take
> a
> look at exactly where banishing smokers to more than 20 feet from the door
> will put their customers.  While 20 feet may work very well for some
> locations, I think it's going to be problematic for others.  I'd like to
> see
> Lambert get off ***his*** "duff" to figure it out for all of us  :-)  I'd
> certainly be happy to donate a stick of chalk or some temporary paint to
> see
> him do the legwork  :-)
>
> And, for the Corner Club, that 20 feet had better NOT include the parking
> lot or alley . . . exiling law-abiding smokers to an area where they can
> --
> literally -- be killed with no consequences is highly irresponsible.  In
> Memory of Kristian Nelson.
>
>
>
> Saundra Lund
> Moscow, ID
>
> The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
> nothing.
> ~ Edmund Burke
>
> ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2009 through life
> plus
> 70 years, Saundra Lund.  Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce
> outside
> the Vision 2020 forum without the express written permission of the
> author.*****
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
> On Behalf Of bear at moscow.com
> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:47 PM
> To: Tom Hansen
> Cc: Moscow Vision 2020
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Draft Ordinance Banning Smoking in Bars
>
>
> Well Tom, it looks like John Weber (or I should say, uh, his opposition)
> has a great slogan for his campaign as mayor: " Time Out, time out, time
> out, we can't have a debate" !  He'll make a great mayor!
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------------------------
>
>> Greetings Visionaires -
>>
>> As promised, here it is . . .
>>
>> The Administrative Commitee meeting of June 22, 2009 concerning a draft
>> ordinance banning smoking in bars..
>>
>> http://www.MoscowCares.com/062209_Admin_PropOrdSmokeBan.htm
>>
>> For those of you that are simply too eager to know the outcome of this
>> agenda item . . . no recommendation has been prepared by this committee.
>> You (are you listening, Bear?) will be provided another opportunity to
>> voice your pleasure (or lack thereof) concerning this proposed ordinance
>> at the Administrative Committee's meeting on July 13, 2009.
>>
>> As mentioned earlier, count the utterings, mutterings, and mumbles of
>> the
>> word "uh" originating from John Weber, Administrative Committee Chair
>> and
>> candidate for Mayor of Moscow.
>>
>> Seeya round town, Moscow.
>>
>> Tom Hansen
>> Moscow, Idaho
>>
>>
>> "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to
>> change
>> and the Realist adjusts his sails."
>>
>> - Unknown
>>
>>
>> =======================================================
>>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>                http://www.fsr.net
>>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> =======================================================
>>
>
>
> =======================================================
>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>                http://www.fsr.net
>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
>
>

"The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to change
and the Realist adjusts his sails."

- Unknown

=======================================================
  List services made available by First Step Internet,
  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
               http://www.fsr.net
          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================

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