[Vision2020] "Please do not continue to confuse people with facts."

[Joe Campbell]

I say yes too. I wonder what Gary thinks.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 24, 2009, at 12:20 PM, Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com 
 > wrote:

> Gary,
>
> Should we decriminalize currently controlled substances so that  
> adults can make their own choices regarding the risks those  
> substances may pose?
>
> I say "Yes."  I'm curious about your position.
>
> Sunil
>
> From: lockshop at pull.twcbc.com
> To: tim.rigsby at hotmail.com; starbliss at gmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 09:11:36 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] "Please do not continue to confuse people  
> with	facts."
>
> It would seem that you, Mr. Moffet, and our city council have a  
> mighty low opinion of the intelligence of the patrons and employees  
> of bars and taverns. I can't speak for your students but, I find it  
> very difficult to believe that by the time a citizen reaches the age  
> of 21 in the United States he hasn't heard the anti-smoking mantra  
> to the point of nausea.
>
> How lucky we are that there are people out there who will take it  
> upon themselves to prevent emancipated Americans from making their  
> own decisions with regard to the risks they take in life.
>
> g
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: TIM RIGSBY
> To: starbliss at gmail.com ; vision2020 at moscow.com
> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 7:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] "Please do not continue to confuse people  
> with facts."
>
> I would like to add the idea of this saying,
>
> "Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story."
>
> Either way Ted, you brought up some very valid points that tend to  
> be forgotten when people discuss tobacco/smoking regulation and  
> legislation.  What scares me as a Health Teacher is when I hear my  
> junior high and high school aged students talking about how safe,  
> they think anyway, Hookah bars are.  When asked if they would ever  
> smoke cigarettes, they claim that they won't.  Yet what these  
> students don't realize is that they are actually smoking tobacco at  
> the high school hookah parties.  What is even scarier is a lot of  
> the parents think that hookah is a safe alternative as well.
>
> The hookah bar closest to my house in Boise is constantly packed  
> with young people all of the time.  Often times, other substances  
> are being laced into the tobacco as well and these young people are  
> unknowingly smoking illegal drugs along with their fruit and tobacco  
> mixture.
>
> I predict in the not so distant future, Boise and possibly the State  
> Legislature will enact legislation to regulate/control these hookah  
> establishments.
>
> Here is a question to ponder.  By definition based on Idaho Code,  
> what is a hookah bar categorized as?  A restaurant, a bar, a private  
> club?  If it falls under the bar definition, then people under 21  
> should not be allowed in.     It seems as though hookah bars would  
> fall into an undefined gray area of the Idaho Clean Indoor Air Act.   
> However, Moscow seems to have covered hookah bars in their recent  
> ban of smoking, I could be wrong though.
>
> " 'Politics is the art of controlling your environment.' That is one  
> of the key things I learned in these years, and I learned it the  
> hard way. Anybody who thinks that 'it doesn't matter who's  
> President' has never been Drafted and sent off to fight and die in a  
> vicious, stupid War on the other side of the World -- or been beaten  
> and gassed by Police for trespassing on public property -- or been  
> hounded by the IRS for purely political reasons -- or locked up in  
> the Cook County Jail with a broken nose and no phone access and  
> twelve perverts wanting to stomp your ass in the shower. That is  
> when it matters who is President or Governor or Police Chief. That  
> is when you will wish you had voted." - Hunter S. Thompson
>
>
>
>
> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 21:39:45 -0700
> From: starbliss at gmail.com
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: [Vision2020] "Please do not continue to confuse people with  
> facts."
>
> The "Off List" response referenced, from someone I regard as one of  
> the most educated and honest Vision2020 participants, that I  
> received to my post below on tobacco regulation, is in total what is  
> stated in the subject heading of this post.  Wise words, no doubt,  
> that I ignore at my own risk...
>
> Notice there is limited or no discussion of some of the critical  
> facts my post presented: that tobacco (nicotine) is a physically  
> addictive drug, with underage tobacco addiction common, raising  
> questions if whether adult "choice" is in effect regarding employees  
> or consumers in tobacco related decisions; that tobacco is the  
> leading cause of premature death (nuclear waste or energy or even  
> nuclear weapons production is not even close as a cause of premature  
> death); that other drugs doing less harm to society than tobacco are  
> criminalized and prosecuted aggressively, involving civil and human  
> rights violations, yet who among those opposing regulation of  
> tobacco, will as aggressively advocate for these drugs to be managed  
> by free choice and the marketplace, rather than a government "Big  
> Brother?"  Some, perhaps... While there are others who should know  
> better playing some on this list as fools, for the sake of debate,  
> or political advantage, or popular image or whatever... Or they are  
> as deluded as those they are debating with...
>
> My response to the "Off List" comment discussed here:
>
> Ummm... OK, I guess... However, being an idealist in belief that  
> expressing the truth is morally mandated (where did I get that  
> dangerous idea?  I''ll end up in serious trouble!  Oh, I forgot, I  
> already am...), I may not comply.  I recently read a variation of  
> this same expression in James Lovelock's "Revenge of Gaia:" "Don't  
> confuse me with the facts, my minds made up."  Lovelock was  
> referring to this mentality regarding the rejection of nuclear power  
> by many in the environmental movement.
>
> Ted
>
>
> Please do not continue to confuse people with facts.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ted Moffett
> To: Moscow Vision 2020
> Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 1:55 AM
> Subject: [Vision2020] Tobacco: Targeting the Nation’s Leading Killer 
> : Centers for Disease Control
>
>
> Tobacco (nicotine) is a physically addictive drug.  Once         
> addicted, "choice" becomes a problematic concept.  And many people  
> become addicted while underage, encouraged to continue their  
> addiction in bars, where cigarettes are often shared between  
> customers.
>
> The fact tobacco is physically addictive is absent from the comments  
> of many opposing the smoking ordinance, as are the facts regarding  
> the magnitude of the damage.  Comparisons to other harmful behaviors  
> are drawn (fatty food, etc.), suggesting that a slippery slope of  
> regulation will lead to government control over too many aspects of  
> life, but many of these behaviors do not involve a drug addiction.   
> Of course alcohol has dramatic negative impacts.  But workers in  
> bars are not forced to drink the drinks the customers order, as they  
> breathe the smoke of the customers.
>
> I find it incredible that the health of workers exposed to an  
> addictive drug when they breathe in the workplace is approached so  
> callously.  They can work elsewhere, it's announced with smug  
> authority, as if in this economy workers have the luxury of choosing  
> whatever job suits their fancy, rather than an urgency to take  
> whatever work they can find.  If it was cocaine or heroin or  
> methamphetamine that workers were exposed to, the attitude might be  
> different.
>
> Profits from exposing workers to addictive drugs in the workplace  
> should be protected based on free market, free choice, adult  
> responsibility?  If this is the logic, where are the protests  
> against laws imposed on those selling cocaine, heroin or  
> methamphetamine, et. al., to consenting adults, which can result in  
> long prison sentences?  Let the free market decide!  Why stand in  
> the way of profits and the free choice of adults?
>
> If those opposing the smoking ordinance were consistent in their  
> outrage against limits on the free market, their ideology might have  
> more intellectual credibility.  Instead, the libertarianism proposed  
> is inconsistent and conformist.  Or perhaps those opposed to the  
> smoking ordinance will now protest that bars do not allow legal  
> cocaine, heroin or methamphetamine use?  Think of the profits to be  
> made!  And remember, tobacco prematurely kills more people than  
> those three drugs combined...
>
> If attempts were made to criminalize tobacco like cannabis is,  
> resulting in prison sentences, home invasions, for sale or use, I  
> would oppose this vehemently.  But an ordinance regulating smoking  
> in bars does not stop any adult from legally using tobacco products  
> in settings where they do not expose workers.
>
> If worker freedom of choice was a valid argument to justify the  
> exposure of workers to tobacco smoke in bars, than OSHA could be  
> mostly eliminated.  After all, if workers exposed to hazards  
> monitored or banned by OSHA don't want to work with those risks,  
> they can work elsewhere, as long as signs posted in the workplace  
> inform them of the risks.  A "Big Brother" government bureaucracy  
> gone.
> --------------------------
> http://www.cdc.gov/NCCDPHP/publications/aag/osh.htm
> The Burden of Tobacco Use
>
> Tobacco use is the single most preventable cause of disease,  
> disability, and death in the United States. Each year, an estimated  
> 443,000 people die prematurely from smoking or exposure to  
> secondhand smoke, and another 8.6 million have a serious illness  
> caused by smoking. For every person who dies from smoking, 20 more  
> people suffer from at least one serious tobacco-related illness.  
> Despite these risks, approximately 43.4 million U.S. adults smoke  
> cigarettes. Smokeless tobacco, cigars, and pipes also have deadly  
> consequences, including lung, larynx, esophageal, and oral cancers.
> The harmful effects of smoking do not end with the smoker. More than  
> 126 million nonsmoking Americans, including children and adults, are  
> regularly exposed to secondhand smoke. Even brief exposure can be  
> dangerous because nonsmokers inhale many of the same carcinogens and  
> toxins in cigarette smoke as smokers. Secondhand smoke exposure  
> causes serious disease and death, including heart disease and lung  
> cancer in nonsmoking adults and sudden infant death syndrome, acute  
> respiratory infections, ear problems, and more frequent and severe  
> asthma attacks in children. Each year, primarily because of exposure  
> to secondhand smoke, an estimated 3,000 nonsmoking Americans die of  
> lung cancer, more than 46,000 (range: 22,700–69,600) die of heart di 
> sease, and about 150,000–300,000 children younger than 18 months hav 
> e lower respiratory tract infections.
> Coupled with this enormous health toll is the significant economic  
> burden of tobacco use—more than $96 billion per year in medical expe 
> nditures and another $97 billion per year resulting from lost produc 
> tivity.
>
>
> [A text description of this graph is also available.]
>
> The Tobacco Use Epidemic Can Be Stopped
>
> A 2007 Institute of Medicine (IOM) report presented a blueprint for  
> action to “reduce smoking so substantially that it is no longer a pu 
> blic health problem for our nation.” The two-pronged strategy for ac 
> hieving this goal includes not only strengthening and fully implemen 
> ting currently proven tobacco control measures, but also changing th 
> e regulatory landscape to permit policy innovations. Foremost among  
> the IOM recommendations is that each state should fund a comprehensi 
> ve tobacco control program at the level recommended by CDC in Best P 
> ractices for Comprehensive Tobacco Control Programs–2007.
> Evidence-based, statewide tobacco control programs that are  
> comprehensive, sustained, and accountable have been shown to reduce  
> smoking rates, tobacco-related deaths, and diseases caused by  
> smoking. A comprehensive program is a coordinated effort to  
> establish smoke-free policies and social norms, to promote and  
> assist tobacco users to quit, and to prevent initiation of tobacco  
> use. This approach combines educational, clinical, regulatory,  
> economic, and social strategies.
> Research has documented the effectiveness of laws and policies to  
> protect the public from secondhand smoke exposure, promote  
> cessation, and prevent initiation when they are applied in a  
> comprehensive way. For example, states can increase the unit price  
> of tobacco products; implement smoking bans through policies,  
> regulations, and laws; provide insurance coverage of tobacco use  
> treatment; and limit minors’ access to tobacco products.
> If the nation is to achieve the objectives outlined in Healthy  
> People 2010, comprehensive, evidence-based approaches for preventing  
> smoking initiation and increasing cessation need to be fully  
> implemented.
> CDC's Response
>
> CDC is the lead federal agency for tobacco control. CDC’s Office on  
> Smoking and Health (OSH) provides national leadership for a comprehe 
> nsive, broad-based approach to reducing tobacco use. A variety of go 
> vernment agencies, professional and voluntary organizations, and aca 
> demic institutions have joined together to advance this approach, wh 
> ich involves the following activities:
> Preventing young people from starting to smoke.
>
> Eliminating exposure to secondhand smoke.
>
> Promoting quitting among young people and adults.
>
> Identifying and eliminating tobacco-related health disparities.
> Essential elements of this approach include state-based, community- 
> based, and health system-based interventions; cessation services;  
> counter marketing; policy development and implementation;  
> surveillance; and evaluation. These activities target groups who are  
> at highest risk for tobacco-related health problems.
> -------------------------------------------
> Vision2020 Post: Ted Moffett
>
>
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