[Vision2020] [Spam 6.72] Re: Humane interrogations work

[the lockshop]

I was refering to the battlefield. To the best of my knowlege we have not executed a single captured terrorist, in fact quite the opposite, most have been treated far better by us then they would have had they been returned to their native lands. I could have sworn that "imprisionment" is what we had going at guantanamo and I would have been content to let the vermin rot there but, apparently, that doesn't suit the current mood. (although lip service is all that I've seen with regard to a change)

Just to be clear though, I would have no problem with executing any terrorist who can be proven guilty of murdering an American or ally and firmly believe that it is a better alternative to imprisionment. After all, these are not soldiers or prisioners of war, they are criminals.

g
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bruce and Jean Livingston 
  To: the lockshop ; Ralph Nielsen ; g. crabtree 
  Cc: vision 2020 
  Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 3:32 PM
  Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [Spam 6.72] Re: Humane interrogations work


  Alternatives to execution are "surrender, capitulation and acquiescence"?  Ludicrous!

  Imprisonment is an easy alternative that punishes, deters and protects society.

  Bruce Livingston
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: the lockshop 
    To: Ralph Nielsen ; g. crabtree 
    Cc: vision 2020 
    Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 3:24 PM
    Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [Spam 6.72] Re: Humane interrogations work


    Ah, Every day is Ashura, every land is Karbala, eh?

    I'm glad we have managed to find common ground. It is silly to be concerned about creating martyrs as muslim extremists need no provocation or justification for their bloody sensless acts and while killing them doesn't do as much to reduce their ranks as quickly as I would prefer, it does put an end to the individual bad attitude and is far preferable to leaving them loose to kill again.

    As has been mentioned on a parallel thread, killing cockroaches hasn't put an end to that problem either but no one is suggesting that we quit. 

    Instead of taking exception to my solution to the problem and insisting that I "think of something better," why don't you enlighten me with your solution. Surrender, capitulation, and acquiescence perhaps?

    g
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Ralph Nielsen 
      To: g. crabtree 
      Cc: vision 2020 
      Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 2:17 PM
      Subject: [Spam 6.72] Re: [Vision2020] Humane interrogations work


      Sorry, Gary, creating martyrs doesn't work. Many years ago the Christian church declared, "The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the Church." 


      Some years later, in  680 C.E., Husayn ibn Ali, the grandson of the Prophet, and a small group of family members and followers were defeated and beheaded by a much larger army. Ever since then their martyrdom has been commemorated by millions of Muslims. Before he was slain, the martyr Husayn declared, "The believer should desire to meet his Lord while he is right. Thus I do not see death but as happiness, and living with tyrants but as sorrow." 


      Gary, you've got to think of something better than just killing people.


      Ralph




       g. crabtree wrote:


        I don't know about Roger but I'm A-OK with dead terrorists. It certainly is a deterrent for the individual terrorist in question and as to their becoming one more martyr, who cares? It's not as though the lack would result in any reduction in anti American/western violence. After all, Who was Bin Laden avenging? What about Mohamed Atta, Marwan Al-Shehhi, Fayez Ahmed, Mohald Alshehri, Hamza Alghamdi and Ahmed Alghamdi, Waleed M Alshehri, Wail Alshehri, Abdulaziz Alomari, Satam Al Suqami, Khalid Al-Midhar, Majed Moqed, Nawaq Alhamzi, Salem Alhamzi, Hani Hanjour, Ahmed Alhaznawi, Ahmed Alnami, Ziad Jarrahi and Saeed Alghamdi? There is no question but what were we to cease bringing terrorists down to room temperature the violence would still go on and on and on.


        g




          Roger,


          Maybe you don't like torturing people. But why do you deliberately
          want to kill people? They don't do things like that in civilized
          countries. It doesn't work as a deterrent and, as I have already
          pointed out, it only makes martyrs out of them. I repeat: Whose side
          are you on?


          Ralph




            Ralph
            That ia a ludicrous statement. If you have read my posts it should
            be clear that I do not like torture. Whether he thinks he would be
            a martyr or not is irrelevant. To my mind he would not be a martyr,
            just a fanatic who got what was coming to him.
            Roger






              Nick
              [snip]


              Khalid Scheiikh Mohammed is a fanatic and it is doubtful you could
              appeal to his good side. He wants to executed so he can be a martyr.
              I would grant his wish. It is to be expected that you will get a lot
              of misinformation and this should be taked into account.


              Roger


              Roger, I get the impression that you really enjoy torturing and
              killing people. Why should we make a martyr out of anyone, least of
              all of a fanatic? Whose side are you on?


              Ralph






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