[Vision2020] A Paradox

[lfalen]

Joe
You do not have a very good memory. All you have to do is check the archives. You will find that I have criticized Bush on numerous occasions. I do not see any criticism of Obama by you, Tom or Nick. To his credit Sunil did criticized him on the secrecy issue.
Roger
-----Original message-----
From: Joe Campbell philosopher.joe at gmail.com
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 13:57:08 -0800
To: lfalen lfalen at turbonet.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A Paradox

> Who said no one? I'm saying not everyone, not me, not most folks.
> 
> I'm not celebrating anything. There is a tough road left ahead for all  
> of us, not just Obama. But it is only one month, comprared with 8  
> years. Say one thing negative about Bush compared with your comments  
> about Obama and maybe I'll take you seriously. Give me a break, Roger.  
> Where were your complaints about Bush in the last 5 years? I didn't  
> see them. Then suddenly there is this. Give the man some time before  
> passing judgment.
> 
> Joe Campbell
> 
> On Feb 12, 2009, at 12:19 PM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
> 
> > You are totally naive if you think that no one voted for him for  
> > that reason. It is of course not the only reason. I do not think  
> > that very many of the hard core left would vote for Thomas Sowell.  
> > My point was that Obama's election was a great historic event and  
> > should be celebrated in that context, but that context only.
> >
> > Roger
> > -----Original message-----
> > From: Joe Campbell philosopher.joe at gmail.com
> > Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 12:57:36 -0800
> > To: lfalen lfalen at turbonet.com
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A Paradox
> >
> >> You don't read your own posts or mine well either. First, you failed
> >> to mention Bush in your original post, so my assumptions are not
> >> unwarranted. Second, I never said Bush was the only problem.
> >>
> >> Also, who besides you is talking about skin color? The implication of
> >> your post was that some people voted for Obama because he was  
> >> black. I
> >> find no other sensible connection to the subject of race. That is
> >> offensive to him, to blacks, to me, and to anyone else who voted for
> >> him.
> >>
> >> Aren't you telling me and other Obama voters that we're impressed by
> >> Obama because he's black, that that is the main reason we voted for
> >> him? If not, what are you saying? Maybe you should figure that out
> >> before you put up another post.
> >>
> >> Joe Campbell
> >>
> >> On Feb 12, 2009, at 11:09 AM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Joe
> >>> You don't read very well. I never said that Bush did not deserve
> >>> some of the blame. He does. The problem with you is you want to put
> >>> it all on him, which is not the case. In actual fact he did bring up
> >>> the problems with Freddie and Fannie in 2003 and was rebuffed. He
> >>> should not have let up on it and he should never have done the
> >>> rebates or promoted the bailouts. Obama is not to blame as
> >>> president, but he does share some of the blame because of his
> >>> association with ACORN. He will to be blame for the prolonged
> >>> recovery. You put all of the blame on Bush. There is no way to
> >>> verify it one way or the other, but I am convinced that we would be
> >>> in much greater trouble today if either Gore or Kerry had won. I did
> >>> not support Bush on a lot of things but he was better that the
> >>> alternative.
> >>> My point was that skin color should not have anything to do with it
> >>> and that it should be dropped, but in this election it was a major
> >>> concederation and is part of the reason Obama receives  such
> >>> adulation. It should not have had any baring on it.
> >>> Roger
> >>> -----Original message-----
> >>> From: Joe Campbell philosopher.joe at gmail.com
> >>> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 22:40:20 -0800
> >>> To: lfalen lfalen at turbonet.com
> >>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A Paradox
> >>>
> >>>> We just finished eight years of one of the worst two term
> >>>> presidencies
> >>>> in US history. This man started a war for no damn reason that we as
> >>>> still stuck it, ran up the deficit (which Clinton got down to zero
> >>>> after it was run up by previous Republican administrations), and  
> >>>> left
> >>>> us in the worst economic situation since the Great Depression. And
> >>>> you
> >>>> see fit to place the blame on a man who has been in office for
> >>>> about a
> >>>> month and any Democrat or liberal you can think of.
> >>>>
> >>>> What is wrong with you? For all the talk from conservatives about
> >>>> personal resonsibility I see little of it. If you don't think that
> >>>> Bush deserves any of the blame for our current economic troubles,
> >>>> then
> >>>> you have a serious problem.
> >>>>
> >>>> And what on earth does the color of the president's skin have to do
> >>>> with any of it? If you want a color free society, then stop talking
> >>>> about race in discussions where it is totally irrelevant.
> >>>>
> >>>> You and others voted for an idiot. Twice. And now were're paying  
> >>>> the
> >>>> price. It is just that simple.
> >>>>
> >>>> Joe Campbell
> >>>>
> >>>> On Feb 11, 2009, at 11:45 AM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> People are right to celebrate the election of Obama as a historic
> >>>>> event. It truly is. It has been along hard struggle to archive the
> >>>>> equality that is stated in the constitution. A lot of brave men  
> >>>>> have
> >>>>> been involved in the struggle. Lincoln, Frederick Douglass, Booker
> >>>>> T. Washington, Medger Evers, King and may others. Some have given
> >>>>> their lives. This is a bitter sweet victory, but wont be truly won
> >>>>> until the color barrier is completely erased. A time when ones  
> >>>>> color
> >>>>> is no more of an issue than being Irish or German and race is not
> >>>>> even mentioned. The tragedy is that Obama's economic views are so
> >>>>> horribly wrong. What he is doing will prolong the recovery. I will
> >>>>> be in the poor house before the economy recovers. Already people  
> >>>>> are
> >>>>> saying medical care will have to prioritized. An old codger like  
> >>>>> me
> >>>>> will be considered to have lived long enough. Any ailment will be
> >>>>> allowed to run its course.
> >>>>> Obama blames Bush, talking about the failed polices of the last
> >>>>> eight years. Bush certainly bares some of the blame. The main  
> >>>>> cause
> >>>>> however lays with Acorn, Obama himself, Carter, Franks Dodd and
> >>>>> Clinton. Franks and Dodd were warned about the problem with  
> >>>>> Freddie
> >>>>> and Fannie and said that everything was fine. Dodd and Obama are  
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> two largest recipients of contributions from Freddie and Fannie.
> >>>>> Thes are now the people in charge of fixing the problem. This is
> >>>>> like putting the fox in charge of the hen house.
> >>>>> Obama calls for a bipartisan effort to pass his program. If he  
> >>>>> want
> >>>>> bipartisan support he first needs to rain in Rham Emanuel. Emanuel
> >>>>> wamts to take the census away from the Commerce Department and put
> >>>>> it under his control This is to politicize it. The goal is to  
> >>>>> ensure
> >>>>> democratic control forever. Obama is saying to the republicans in
> >>>>> essence "I want to destroy you and I would like this to be a
> >>>>> bipartisan effort". The Republicans would have to have a death  
> >>>>> wish
> >>>>> to go along with it. totally aside from the harmful effect to the
> >>>>> country.
> >>>>> Roger
> >>>>>
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