[Vision2020] Humane Treatment of Detainees Gets Results

Mon Feb 9 11:00:01 PST 2009

Jeesh, Roger!

What a bunch of hogwash.

I could spend the rest of the day just listng various reports of violations.  But, why?

Here is a website that details some (but not all) violations committed at GITMO (with valid citatons).  The website is titled "Broken Laws, Broken Lives".  It is maintained by a group called Physicians for Human Rights.

http://brokenlives.info/

Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho 
"For a lapsed Lutheran born-again Buddhist pan-Humanist Universalist Unitarian Wiccan Agnostic like myself there's really no reason ever to go to work."

- Roy Zimmerman> Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 10:22:36 -0800> From: lfalen at turbonet.com> To: starbliss at gmail.com; nickgier at roadrunner.com> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Humane Treatment of Detainees Gets Results> > The bad treatment of prisoners at GITMO is a way overplayed. Yes there were 4 who were waterboarded. This is also done to some of our elete troops as part of there training. On the whole the treatment of detainee is exemplary. They are allowed to observe their religious customs. They are allowed to exercise and participate in recreation activities. If any of the guards are caught mistreating or ridiculing their customs, they are the ones that are subject to disciplinary action.> Roger> -----Original message-----> From: Ted Moffett starbliss at gmail.com> Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2009 15:05:04 -0800> To: "nickgier at roadrunner.com" nickgier at roadrunner.com> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Humane Treatment of Detainees Gets Results> > > It's not just Cheney who might need to worry about international travel> > plans. Arrest warrants for CIA operatives involved in renditions have> > already been issued in Italy and Germany for those involved in illegal> > rendering of suspects. And there is the well documented case of Canadian> > Maher Arar, who is suing US entities regarding his rendition from the US to> > Syria where he was tortured (documented to be an accurate claim according to> > the Canadian government investigation into this case). There may be other> > efforts to issue arrest warrants for Bush Administration officials, US> > military and or CIA operatives, in other nations, though I doubt any such> > actions in the US will go anywhere. Already, Obama has dismissed pushing> > for prosecution of US war crimes or related offences involving the Bush> > administration. And Leon Panetta, Obama's appointee for head of the CIA,> > must be playing political games (as he should, given he will head the CIA)> > in his recent statement that he does not know of the "validity" of> > rendering for torture carried out by the Bush administration. It is well> > documented that suspension of human rights for prisoners as outlined in the> > Geneva Convention were supported by the Bush Administration, and that the US> > transferred prisoners to other nations, that routinely practice torture, for> > interrogation:> > > > http://articles.latimes.com/2006/jun/05/nation/na-torture5> > > > The move to restore U.S. adherence to Article 3 was opposed by officials> > from Vice President Dick> > Cheney<http://topics.latimes.com/politics/people/dick-cheney>'s> > office and by the Pentagon's intelligence arm, government sources said.> > David S. Addington, Cheney's chief of staff, and Stephen A. Cambone, Defense> > undersecretary for intelligence, said it would restrict the United States'> > ability to question detainees.> > ----------> > Panetta's recent comments on Bush Administration rendition and torture:> > > > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/06/panetta-takes-back-remark_n_164650.html?page=12> > > > WASHINGTON — CIA Director-nominee Leon Panetta formally retracted a> > statement he made Thursday that the Bush administration transferred> > prisoners for the purpose of torture.> > > > "I am not aware of the validity of those claims," he said.> > > > -------------> > Articles on arrest warrants in Germany and Italy for CIA operatives:> > > > http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/01/31/news/germany.php> > > > http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/07/05/italy.spy/index.html> > -------------> > Information on the case of Maher Arar, rendered from the US to Syria where> > he was tortured:> > > > http://www.maherarar.ca/index.php> > ------------> > Vision2020 Post: Ted Moffett> > > > > > > > On 2/8/09, nickgier at roadrunner.com <nickgier at roadrunner.com> wrote:> > >> > > Greetings:> > >> > > The author was national security advisor for Bush Pere and work for the CIA> > > for 30 years.> > >> > > I hope that Cheney does not have any foreign travel plans. He could end up> > > in jail for war crimes.> > >> > > Nick Gier> > >> > > February 8, 2009> > > The New York Times> > > Speaking With the Enemy> > > By DONALD P. GREGG> > >> > > WHEN former Vice President Dick Cheney warned last week that terrorists> > > will be emboldened by President Barack Obama's decision to close Guantánamo> > > and to ban harsh interrogation techniques, I was reminded of a story.> > >> > > During wartime service in Vietnam with the C.I.A. from 1970 to 1972, I was> > > in charge of intelligence operations in the 10 provinces surrounding Saigon.> > > One of my tasks was to prevent rocket attacks on Saigon's port.> > >> > > Keeping Saigon safe required human intelligence, most often from captured> > > prisoners. I had a running debate about how North Vietnamese prisoners> > > should be treated with the South Vietnamese colonel who conducted> > > interrogations. This colonel routinely tortured prisoners, producing a flood> > > of information, much of it totally false. I argued for better treatment, and> > > pressed for key prisoners to be turned over to the C.I.A., where humane> > > interrogation methods were the rule, and more accurate intelligence the> > > result.> > >> > > The colonel finally relented and turned over a battered prisoner to me,> > > saying, "This man knows a lot but he will not talk to me." We treated the> > > prisoner's wounds, reunited him with his family and allowed him to make his> > > first visit to Saigon. Surprised by the city's affluence, he said he would> > > tell us anything we asked. The result was a flood of actionable intelligence> > > that allowed us to disrupt planned operations, including rocket attacks> > > against Saigon.> > >> > > Admittedly, it would be hard to make a story from nearly 40 years ago into> > > a definitive case study. But there is a useful reminder here. The key to> > > successful interrogation is for the interrogator — even as he controls the> > > situation — to recognize a prisoner's humanity, to understand his culture,> > > background and language. Torture makes this impossible.> > >> > > There's a sad twist here. Mr. Cheney forgets that the Bush administration> > > followed this approach> > > with some success. A high-value prisoner subjected to patient interrogation> > > by an Arabic-speaking F.B.I. agent yielded highly useful information,> > > including the final word on Iraq's weapons programs.> > >> > > His name was Saddam Hussein.> > >> > > Donald P. Gregg, the national security adviser to Vice President George H.> > > W. Bush from 1982 to 1988 and ambassador to Korea from 1989 to 1993, worked> > > for the C.I.A. for 30 years. He is the chairman of the Korea Society.> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > =======================================================> List services made available by First Step Internet, > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. > http://www.fsr.net > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com> =======================================================
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