[Vision2020] State Faculty Union Responds to Financial Crisis
lfalen
lfalen at turbonet.com
Fri Apr 24 09:45:01 PDT 2009
You are correct.Whether there should be tenure not is a separate question.
Roger
-----Original message-----
From: Paul Rumelhart godshatter at yahoo.com
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 19:59:55 -0700
To: Joe Campbell philosopher.joe at gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] State Faculty Union Responds to Financial Crisis
> Presumably a pay cut and the added bonus of keeping your job while
> others might be losing theirs. If I'm understanding Roger, his beef is
> with tenured professors being immune from pay cuts - not with their
> being immune from being laid off.
>
> Paul
>
> Joe Campbell wrote:
> > Maybe I should have expressed my question more clearly, What is tenure
> > without the salary? What do you get with that?
> >
> > Joe Campbell
> >
> > On Apr 23, 2009, at 8:43 AM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> All I am saying is that pay cuts should affect everyone, starting
> >> with administrators. It makes no sence to cut the pay of those on
> >> the lowest end of the pay scale while excluding those that make
> >> more. If the rules for tenure do not allow for this, then the rules
> >> need to be changed.
> >> Roger
> >> -----Original message-----
> >> From: nickgier at roadrunner.com
> >> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 14:22:01 -0700
> >> To: vision2020 at moscow.com, lfalen lfalen at turbonet.com, "Gier,
> >> Nicholas" NGIER at uidaho.edu
> >> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] State Faculty Union Responds to Financial
> >> Crisis
> >>
> >>
> >>> Hi Roger,
> >>>
> >>> If tenure protects base salary, as two legal cases indicate that it
> >>> does, then a contract that invalidated that aspect of tenure would
> >>> be illegal and no faculty member should agree to it.
> >>>
> >>> Nick
> >>> ---- lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> You are reading in things that arn't there. I said only that
> >>>> future tenure contract should not lock in salaries in the event
> >>>> that every one else takes a pay cut. In this narrow regard, no
> >>>> one should be immuned.
> >>>> Roger
> >>>> -----Original message-----
> >>>> From: "Gier, Nicholas" NGIER at uidaho.edu
> >>>> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 14:01:58 -0700
> >>>> To: "lfalen" lfalen at turbonet.com, nickgier at roadrunner.com, vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>>> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] State Faculty Union Responds to
> >>>> Financial Crisis
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hi Roger,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Here are your exact words:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "If this is prohibited by tenured rules, these should be changed
> >>>>> going forward. Contracts should be honored as the early retires
> >>>>> contracts should be honored. The thing is do not make these kinds
> >>>>> of contracts in the future."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Perhaps you did not mean to say it, but you wrote this and it
> >>>>> clearly implies that future contracts for faculty would not
> >>>>> include tenure.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Nick
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: lfalen [mailto:lfalen at turbonet.com]
> >>>>> Sent: Wed 4/22/2009 1:53 PM
> >>>>> To: Gier, Nicholas; nickgier at roadrunner.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>>>> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] State Faculty Union Responds to
> >>>>> Financial Crisis
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I did not say anything about eliminating tenure, only that they
> >>>>> should be subject to same rules as staff when it comes to pay cuts.
> >>>>> Roger
> >>>>> -----Original message-----
> >>>>> From: "Gier, Nicholas" NGIER at uidaho.edu
> >>>>> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 10:42:01 -0700
> >>>>> To: "lfalen" lfalen at turbonet.com, nickgier at roadrunner.com, vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>>>> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] State Faculty Union Responds to
> >>>>> Financial Crisis
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi Roger,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If you are suggesting that Idaho eliminate tenure, then
> >>>>>> prospective faculty members will not apply for jobs on Idaho's
> >>>>>> campuses. That of course would be disastrous for Idaho higher
> >>>>>> education.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Tenure is necessary for academic freedom and that means, after a
> >>>>>> rigorous probationary period of 5-7 years, tenured professors
> >>>>>> have career-long protection from political interference in their
> >>>>>> teaching, research, and service.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Nick
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com on behalf of lfalen
> >>>>>> Sent: Wed 4/22/2009 10:39 AM
> >>>>>> To: nickgier at roadrunner.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] State Faculty Union Responds to
> >>>>>> Financial Crisis
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Nick
> >>>>>> I agree with you on administrative position and athletics,
> >>>>>> though not necessarily on tenure. If cuts do get down to staff
> >>>>>> positions, it should also include tenured faculty. If this is
> >>>>>> prohibited by tenured rules, these should be changed going
> >>>>>> forward. Contracts should be honored as the early retires
> >>>>>> contracts should be honored. The thing is do not make these
> >>>>>> kinds of contracts in the future.
> >>>>>> Roger
> >>>>>> -----Original message-----
> >>>>>> From: nickgier at roadrunner.com
> >>>>>> Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 14:54:37 -0700
> >>>>>> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>>>>> Subject: [Vision2020] State Faculty Union Responds to Financial
> >>>>>> Crisis
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> IFT HIGHER EDUCATION COUNCIL RESPONDS TO FINANCIAL CRISIS
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On April 15, 2009 the Higher Education Council of the Idaho
> >>>>>>> Federation of Teachers, AFT/AFL-CIO met in a phone conference
> >>>>>>> to discuss the financial crisis.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Those present were Valia Tatarova, Idaho State University
> >>>>>>> (physics); Lynn Lubamersky, Boise State University (history);
> >>>>>>> Chris Riggs, Lewis-Clark State College (history); Lynne
> >>>>>>> Haagensen, University of Idaho (art); Joyce Lider, North Idaho
> >>>>>>> College (English); Susan Andrews, IFT Vice-President for Higher
> >>>>>>> Education; and Nick Gier, IFT President.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I. Salary Reduction Proposal. According to a legal opinion from
> >>>>>>> the AFT national office, academic tenure protects base salary.
> >>>>>>> Tenure is a property right and at least two court cases have
> >>>>>>> recognized that base salary is part of that property. The IFT
> >>>>>>> Higher Education Council voted to oppose any salary reductions
> >>>>>>> for tenured faculty. We join the BSU Faculty Senate President
> >>>>>>> in vowing to file a case action suit if tenured faculty are
> >>>>>>> forced to take a pay cut. In a related decision the IFT Higher
> >>>>>>> Education Council voted that classified staff, lecturers, and
> >>>>>>> non-tenured faculty be exempt from salary reductions and
> >>>>>>> proposed that salary savings be taken from those making more
> >>>>>>> than $100,000.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> II. Teaching positions should have priority over administrative
> >>>>>>> positions. Nation-wide administrative positions have generally
> >>>>>>> grown at a greater rate than teaching positions. The example
> >>>>>>> of BSU is especially egregious: from 2005-2007 BSU had over 100
> >>>>>>> more administrators than its peers but 191 fewer faculty
> >>>>>>> members instructing students than peer institutions.
> >>>>>>> Administrative salaries have also outpaced faculty pay. Since
> >>>>>>> 1982 the salaries of 11 top UI administrative positions have
> >>>>>>> increased 260 percent while full professor salaries increased
> >>>>>>> 198 percent. (CPI for the period was 215.) (For more see <www.home.roadrunner.com/~nickgier/salaries.htm
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> .) The IFT Higher Education Council voted to recommend that
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> administrative positions be cut before teaching positions.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> III. Appropriated funds are for academics not athletics. Since
> >>>>>>> 1987 state subsidies for athletics at the UI has grown 338
> >>>>>>> percent while appropriations for Idaho higher education has
> >>>>>>> grown 159 percent. Currently the state subsidies for UI and
> >>>>>>> ISU athletics are over $3 million. Since 1999 private
> >>>>>>> contributions to UI athletics rose 246 percent, indicating the
> >>>>>>> potential for it to wean itself, as any non-academic program
> >>>>>>> should, from its state subsidy. (For more see <www.home.roadrunner.com/~nickgier/athletics.htm
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> .) The IFT Higher Education Council voted to request that
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> state monies for athletics on all Idaho campuses be phased out
> >>>>>>> over 4-6 years.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> IV. Program reduction procedures must be revised. In 2002 the
> >>>>>>> Idaho State Board of Education (SBOE) instituted new procedures
> >>>>>>> for program reduction. At that time the IFT objected to a lack
> >>>>>>> of protection for tenured faculty and requested that the
> >>>>>>> procedures be revised. As no revisions have been made, IFT
> >>>>>>> president asked in December 2008 for a legal opinion from the
> >>>>>>> national office. The response was that these procedures
> >>>>>>> undermine tenure and do not comply with Idaho law. (For more
> >>>>>>> see <www.home.roadrunner.com/~nickgier/ProgramReduction.htm>.)
> >>>>>>> The IFT Higher Education Council voted to urge the SBOE to
> >>>>>>> revise these procedures such that tenured faculty have the same
> >>>>>>> protection as under the procedures for financial exigency.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> =======================================================
> >>>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >>>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >>>>>>> http://www.fsr.net
> >>>>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>>>>>> =======================================================
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> =======================================================
> >>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >>>>>> http://www.fsr.net
> >>>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>>>>> =======================================================
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >> =======================================================
> >> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >> http://www.fsr.net
> >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> =======================================================
> >>
> >
> > =======================================================
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > http://www.fsr.net
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > =======================================================
> >
> >
>
>
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