[Vision2020] "Harsh" Interrogations -As ye sow, so shall you
Joe Campbell
philosopher.joe at gmail.com
Fri Apr 24 06:08:18 PDT 2009
I know some people I'd like to put it a box -- without the caterpillar!
But I won't do it it because it's wrong.
Joe Campbell
On Apr 23, 2009, at 7:36 PM, Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
> wrote:
> You suffer from the same misconception that gets so many of my
> clients in trouble: Your opinions do not reflect the law.
>
> Your understandings appear to be based on your wholesale acceptance
> of the rationales offered by war criminals to cover their asses.
> Why aren't you so blindly accepting the rest of the time?
>
> Sunil
>
>
> > From: jampot at roadrunner.com
> > To: godshatter at yahoo.com; lfalen at turbonet.com; bear at moscow.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 19:16:08 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] "Harsh" Interrogations -As ye sow, so
> shall you
> >
> > This seems to me to be a fair question. If it's considered torture
> to put a
> > guy in a box with a caterpillar, what about a cell with a fellow
> terrorist?
> > It's really just a matter of degree. If depriving an unlawful
> combatant of
> > sleep is torture what about not allowing the poor dears to sleep
> in on the
> > weekends? Stress positions criminal? What about not providing
> orthopedic
> > queen sized beds and massaging barcoloungers? Pouring water on
> their ugly
> > mugs too harsh? What about insisting that the prisoners take a
> monthly
> > shower whether they need it of not?
> >
> > Rape as torture? To be sure although I'll take it over having my
> skin
> > removed with eyebrow tweezers, being lowered into a chipper
> shredder up to
> > my navel, being beaten with rods till the number of broken bones
> exceeds
> > ones I.Q. (I know, I know a few fingers and a rib in my particular
> case) a
> > week or two of ground glass suppers and battery acid enemas or
> being rubbed
> > in fat and roasted till your so overcooked the New York Times food
> critic
> > would send you back to the chef and write a scathing review in the
> Sunday
> > style edition.
> >
> > Who ever remarked that there ought to be a line over which we do
> not go is
> > correct. There is a difference between a harsh interrogation and
> torture. In
> > my opinion we did a pretty fine job of walking that line. Had the
> > interrogators indeed been sadistic torturers and not just asking
> poignant
> > questions firmly we should be seeing a trail of corpses and
> cripples, not a
> > gaggle of surly Sunni's and snippy Shiites anxious to be released
> and take a
> > second shot at killing and maiming Americans. It's my
> understanding that the
> > interrogation of these criminals resulted in good information and
> saved
> > lives and the men who brought us that result should be commended,
> not
> > condemned.
> >
> > g
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <bear at moscow.com>
> > To: "Paul Rumelhart" <godshatter at yahoo.com>; "lfalen" <lfalen at turbonet.com
> >;
> > <bear at moscow.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 4:28 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] "Harsh" Interrogations -As ye sow, so
> shall you
> >
> >
> > > Roger,
> > >
> > > WHERE do you draw the line as far as "technique" is concerned?
> > > IF the alleged terrorist is a woman, is it ok to rape her till
> she tells
> > > us about the plot
> > > to bomb
> > > LA?
> > > Or a man for that matter?
> > >
> > > AND remember, IF it's justified for the US to do it, it is
> justified for
> > > everyone else
> > > too!
> > >
> > > The reason it's referred to as a "slippery slope" is that the only
> > > direction to go is DOWN
> > > HILL!
> > >
> > >
> ---
> ---
> ---
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >> That's an extremely dangerous point of view, Roger. How far do
> you take
> > >> it? It's possible that daily random inspections of citizen's
> houses by
> > >> SWAT teams could yield some data. Or that torturing every
> Muslim in
> > >> America would also yield results. The Internet could be used to
> pass
> > >> encrypted information between terrorist cells, maybe it should
> be shut
> > >> down? Perhaps a "shoot-on-sight" curfew would help make us
> safer from
> > >> the threat of terrorism?
> > >>
> > >> I'm tired of this country being run by a bunch of cowards.
> Draw a moral
> > >> line in the sand, and stick to it. Do what is right because it is
> > >> right, not because it is expedient.
> > >>
> > >> Paul
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> lfalen wrote:
> > >> > Bear
> > >> > You are wrong on this.
> > >> > Because a confession was extracted fron this lady does not
> mean that
> > >> > she was a spy.
> > > What
> > > we may have done at GITMO had no bearing on how Iran conducts
> > > interrogations. They would
> > > use brutal tactics no matter what we do.
> > >> > As to our security I believe the following:
> > >> > 1. If an interrogator thinks that there is good reason to
> believe a
> > >> > detainee has
> > > information of an impending attack and does not use what ever
> means is
> > > necessary to obtain
> > > that information and
> > >> > 2 There is a subsequent attack that results in a loss of
> life.then
> > >> > 3. Those interrogators should be prosecuted for dereliction
> of duty.
> > >> > Former CIA Director Casey said that over 50% of the valid
> information
> > >> > about al-Quaeda
> > > came from detainees and that an attack on L.A was thwarted by
> information
> > > obtained from
> > > KSM.
> > >> > Roger
> > >> >
> > >> > -----Original message-----
> > >> > From: bear at moscow.cotwo year period? How about ten years?m
> > >> > Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 20:50:18 -0700
> > >> > To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > >> > Subject: [Vision2020] "Harsh" Interrogations -As ye sow, so
> shall you
> > >> > reep
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >> Well, what we have said is fine, is now coming back to bite
> us.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> American-Iranian journalist Roxana Saberi was sentenced to
> eight
> > >> >> years' jail on
> > > Saturday
> > >> >> after
> > >> >> being convicted in a secret trial of spying for the United
> States. Her
> > >> >> Iranian-born
> > >> >> father, Reza
> > >> >> Saberi, says she may have been tricked into a confession,
> believing
> > >> >> she would be
> > > released
> > >> >> if
> > >> >> she co-operated with the authorities. He said his daughter
> was so
> > >> >> depressed by her
> > >> >> sentence -
> > >> >> the harshest ever given to a dual national on security
> charges in
> > >> >> Iran - that she is
> > >> >> threatening
> > >> >> to go on hunger strike.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Will they force feed her like we have force fed the
> prisoners at
> > >> >> Guantánamo Bay
> > > Detention
> > >> >> Camp when they have gone on hunger strikes? IF they do, what
> makes us
> > >> >> think we have a
> > >> >> right
> > >> >> to object?
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Did they use enhanced interrogation techniques to discover
> that she
> > >> >> was a spy? And
> > >> >> remember,
> > >> >> she was arrested for SPYING. If she was in the United States
> could we
> > >> >> have sued
> > > enhanced
> > >> >> interrogation techniques? US Supreme Court Justice Antonin
> Scalia
> > >> >> said on BBC Radio
> > > 4
> > >> >> that
> > >> >> since these methods are not intended to punish they do not
> violate the
> > >> >> Eighth
> > > Amendment
> > > to
> > >> >>
> > >> >> the United States Constitution, barring "cruel and unusual
> > >> >> punishment", and as such
> > > may
> > >
> > >> >> not
> > >> >> be unconstitutional.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Well, we started this dog fight, now we pay. How do we get
> back on the
> > >> >> moral high
> > > ground
> > >> >> where this kind of behavior from ANY GOVERNMENT is wrong? I
> believe it
> > >> >> starts with
> > > the
> > >
> > >> >> indictment and arrest of George W. Bush et al. Or don't they
> think
> > >> >> they'd get a fair
> > >> >> trial? They
> > >> >> sure as hell would get better treatment awaiting trial than
> they gave!
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> ---------------------------------------------
> > >> >> This message was sent by First Step Internet.
> > >> >> http://www.fsr.com/
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >
> > >> > =======================================================
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> > >> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > >> > http://www.fsr.net
> > >> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > >> > =======================================================
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------
> > > This message was sent by First Step Internet.
> > > http://www.fsr.com/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> ---
> ---
> ---
> ---
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > > =======================================================
> > > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > > http://www.fsr.net
> > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > =======================================================
> >
> >
> > =======================================================
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > http://www.fsr.net
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > =======================================================
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
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