[Vision2020] Bill Ayers & Barack Obama
g. crabtree
jampot at roadrunner.com
Fri Sep 19 06:26:19 PDT 2008
I know a bit about American history and Watergate in particular. Are you
trying to tell me that Watergate was all about G. Gordon Liddy? Liddy was a
minor player in the Watergate scandal, a foot soldier who ended up bearing
the brunt of the punishment for people above him. John Dean, A Watergate
principal who has been held up on this forum as a man whose opinion is
worthy of respectful consideration, had far more to do with Watergate and
it's subsequent cover up then Liddy ever did. Liddy readily admitted that
he did the crime, he did the time, he paid his debt to society and has gone
on to lead a decent life. That McCain should have to move heaven and earth
to disassociate himself from the man seems unreasonable.
g
----- Original Message -----
From: <joekc at roadrunner.com>
To: "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>
Cc: "vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 6:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Bill Ayers & Barack Obama
> You are twisting the argument. No one is sticking up for Ayers. The point
> is that if Ayers matters
> to Obama's reputation, Liddy should matter to McCain's. Another point is
> that, relatively speaking,
> Ayers is not worse than Liddy and Liddy is not better than Ayers. I think
> Liddy is far worse.
>
> Watergate revealed a much deeper threat to American democracy. The simple
> fact is that Nixon
> cheated in a broad number of ways. Cheated in winning the presidential
> election. Look up "Watergate," do a bit of research, and learn something
> about American history. Are you trying to
> tell me that that Nixon resigned the presidency merely because of an
> unsuccessful burglary?
>
> What does democracy stand for if not for fair elections for the presidency
> of the US, where the
> people may be certain that the choice is the product of their will and not
> the will of a select few?
> Do you think that Barry Bonds deserves the home run king crown if it turns
> out that he took
> steroids? No. He cheated. At the very least, Nixon cheated in his second
> presidential bid, cheated
> in an election for the president of the US. He won unfairly and Liddy
> helped.
>
> And Ayers did not get off scot free. The charges were dropped. Why?
> Prosecutorial misconduct.
>
> --
> Joe Campbell
>
> ---- "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com> wrote:
>> I guess since the argument being put forward is that Ayers should be
>> given a
>> bye because he didn't really cause any harm, the same slack needs to be
>> granted to Mr. Liddy. After all, the Watergate break in was unsuccessful
>> and
>> the burglars (a fairly incompetent bunch) were all arrested. So, since no
>> presidential campaign was hijacked and no vote was taken out of the hands
>> of
>> the people it seems to me that you are holding G.Gordon to a much higher
>> standard. At the very least Ayers committed an act of gross vandalism and
>> reckless endangerment and got off Scot free. Liddy was complicit in a
>> failed
>> break in and did five and a half years. He did the crime and he did the
>> time. Throwing in some silly disclaimer whenever his name comes up seems
>> as
>> daft and unnecessary as saying "setting off bombs designed to maximize
>> injury and death in public places is a very, very bad thing.
>>
>> g
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <joekc at roadrunner.com>
>> To: "vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 7:20 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Bill Ayers & Barack Obama
>>
>>
>> > What would be worse: a terrorist from another land blowing up some
>> > buildings or a terrorist from
>> > another land hijacking a presidential campaign and ensuring that one
>> > candidate wins over
>> > another? I think that hijacking a presidential campaign is about the
>> > worst
>> > thing that anyone can
>> > do in a democracy. I'm a bit shocked that not everyone sees it this
>> > way.
>> > Like Donovan I'm no fan
>> > of Ayers but to post anything on this topic without condemning Liddy
>> > seems
>> > to be an insult to our
>> > form of government. Why not at least throw in a "Oh, by the way taking
>> > the
>> > vote for president out
>> > of the people and putting it into the hands of a few is a very, very
>> > bad
>> > thing."
>> >
>> > --
>> > Joe Campbell
>> >
>> > ---- "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com> wrote:
>> >> Read what I wrote. I did not claim that he killed anyone. I said that
>> >> the
>> >> act of setting off explosives wrapped in nails in public places is
>> >> akin
>> >> to attempted murder. If I light your apartment building on fire and,
>> >> by
>> >> the grace of God, no one is injured or killed am I mearly guilty of
>> >> failure to obtain a permit for an open burn?
>> >>
>> >> g
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: Donovan Arnold
>> >> To: Andreas Schou ; vision2020 ; g. crabtree
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 11:46 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Bill Ayers & Barack Obama
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Gary,
>> >>
>> >> I don't condone the actions of Ayers. But he never killed
>> >> anyone.
>> >> To say he did is an incorrect statement. If you can demonstrate to me
>> >> (an
>> >> online article etc.) he killed someone, I will accept your statement
>> >> as
>> >> fact. Otherwise, I say your judgment and understanding on this matter
>> >> is
>> >> deeply in question.
>> >>
>> >> Best Regards,
>> >>
>> >> Donovan
>> >>
>> >> --- On Wed, 9/17/08, g. crabtree <jampot at roadrunner.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> From: g. crabtree <jampot at roadrunner.com>
>> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Bill Ayers & Barack Obama
>> >> To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com, "Andreas Schou"
>> >> <ophite at gmail.com>, "vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> >> Date: Wednesday, September 17, 2008, 5:30 AM
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> "Are you insinuating that Bill Ayers tried to kill people?"
>> >>
>> >> No, I am not insinuating I am saying it flat out. Placing
>> >> anti
>> >> personnel bombs in public places is attempted murder. When the vermin
>> >> in
>> >> Baghdad or Sader City or Fallujah set of IED's they don't know the
>> >> names
>> >> of those they are attempting to murder and maim. Is it your contention
>> >> that they are not trying to kill people?
>> >>
>> >> g
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: Donovan Arnold
>> >> To: Andreas Schou ; vision2020 ; g. crabtree
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 1:42 AM
>> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Bill Ayers & Barack Obama
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> "No small accomplishment. Oh yeah, he has never
>> >> attempted to slaughter soldiers and police via the cowardly practice
>> >> of
>> >> hiding and detonating explosives wrapped in nails."
>> >>
>> >> Are you insinuating that Bill Ayers tried to kill
>> >> people? I am no fan of Ayers. But I think you are off base saying he
>> >> killed, or even attempted to kill people. If you think this, please
>> >> provide us with the names of people Ayers attempted to kill, or who he
>> >> killed.
>> >>
>> >> The people that McCain worked for between 1979 and
>> >> 1992
>> >> harmed more people than Ayers.
>> >>
>> >> Best Regards,
>> >>
>> >> Donovan
>> >>
>> >> --- On Tue, 9/16/08, g. crabtree
>> >> <jampot at roadrunner.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> From: g. crabtree <jampot at roadrunner.com>
>> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Bill Ayers & Barack
>> >> Obama
>> >> To: "Andreas Schou" <ophite at gmail.com>,
>> >> "vision2020"
>> >> <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> >> Date: Tuesday, September 16, 2008, 7:24 PM
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> So what's your problem with the G-Man? The guy did his time in
>> >> anything
>> >> but
>> >> country club conditions until your hero, James Earl Carter, commuted
>> >> his
>> >> sentence. He never ratted out his associates and he's managed to
>> >> support
>> >> himself and his family as an ex-con. No small accomplishment. Oh yeah,
>> >> he
>> >> has never attempted to slaughter soldiers and police via the cowardly
>> >> practice of hiding and detonating explosives wrapped in nails. All
>> >> things
>> >> considered, I know that I would much rather associate with a man who
>> >> served
>> >> his time and was released from prison than an unrepentant attempted
>> >> murderer
>> >> whose only regret is that he couldn't cause more carnage and mayhem.
>> >> Of
>> >> course that's just me.
>> >>
>> >> g
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "Andreas Schou" <ophite at gmail.com>
>> >> To: "vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 6:32 PM
>> >> Subject: [Vision2020] Bill Ayers & Barack Obama
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > They both knew each other. They were both appointed to co-chair an
>> >> > education panel by Mayor Daley, and the prior state Senator from
>> >> > Obama's seat introduced him at Bill Ayers' house. No large,
>> >> ongoing
>> >> > connection. But here's the thing:
>> >> >
>> >> > Why isn't John McCain's friendship with G. Gordon Liddy a campaign
>> >> > issue? Is there any defensible reason for treating Liddy like a
>> >> > rehabilitated member of the community, rather than as a threat to
>> >> > the
>> >> > Republic? If so, why?
>> >> >
>> >> > -- ACS
>> >> >
>> >> > =======================================================
>> >> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> >> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> >> > http://www.fsr.net
>> >> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >> > =======================================================
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> =======================================================
>> >> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> >> http://www.fsr.net
>> >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >> =======================================================
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> =======================================================
>> >> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> >> http://www.fsr.net
>> >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >> =======================================================
>> >>
>> >
>> > =======================================================
>> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> > http://www.fsr.net
>> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> > =======================================================
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
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