[Vision2020] Citing Primary Sources via Secondary Sources

[Jeff Harkins]

Sorry Nick,

Your little trick to bring my offlist reply to you back on to the viz 
was anticipated - and reveals a great deal about your character. I 
know, it was an oversight, right?

If you can't find the time to review the material that has already 
been posted, I am not going to spoon feed it to you.

All the issues are fully presented; all materials linked to my 
position provided.

All comments are available.

Thanks, but I have provided full back up of my position.

Oh - no more offlist correspondence with you.

You apparently don't really understand plagiarism - here is how it is 
defined in the Law School Honor Code:

>Plagiarism. No student shall claim as his or her own original work 
>the research, ideas or
>writing of another, or copy in whole or in part or in effect from 
>the work of another, without
>clearly identifying it as the work of another. Paraphrasing without 
>acknowledgement of
>authorship is a form of plagiarism. Paraphrasing is the close 
>restatement of another's idea or
>using approximately the language of the original. [Section IIB, page 64]

Thus, your use of secondary sources in your writings, which are 
by-products of primary sources, would require citations.  Do you 
provide citations for your use of secondary sources?

Mr. Shoue paraphased, but provided no citations whatsoever.

I think we are done.

Bye.

At 12:02 PM 9/17/2008, you wrote:
>Hi Jeff,
>
>I'm bringing this back on the Vision because of the seriousness of 
>the charges you made against Andreas.
>
>You have ducked the question I posed to you: what is the difference 
>between what I did in my Gandhi research and what Andreas did?  I 
>don't care to go through the details of what you debated.  That's 
>simply not necessary. I just want you to do tell me, Andreas, and 
>others on this list in concise terms what the difference is.



>Let me clarify one important thing.  You somehow have the notion 
>that reviewers of my Gandhi work checked it for plagiarism. No such 
>thing ever happened.  As I stated in my first post, Gandhi scholars 
>quote the primary sources through secondary sources all the time.
>
>This is a serious charge that you have leveled.  You have to back it 
>up or apologize big time.
>
>Nick
>
>
>---- Jeff Harkins <jeffh at moscow.com> wrote:
> > I am going offlist again.
> >
> > Schou is the only one who can know what he did and what his intent
> > was.  I can say that if he had submitted his original post to me as
> > written (in an academic setting) I would have moved forward with
> > charges of plagiarism.
> >
> > Since you haven't had time to go through the full dialogue, we
> > probably won't get anywhere by focusing on details.
> >
> > As I have pointed out numerous times, this is a problem he created,
> > not me.  Read the details, get back to me and we can chat offlist.
> > Pay particular attention to the material prepared by Alperin-Sheriff
> > and the Terms of Use of the McClatchy site (which he admits he
> > used).  He doesn't seem to appreciate how reckless and careless his
> > actions were and how significant the consequences can be (ie, Biden's
> > use of Kinnock's speech).
> >
> > All I have done is point out to him that he needs to approach the Law
> > School Administration and deal with the matter with them. He is
> > subject to the Law School Honor Code.
> >
> > What he chooses to do to resolve this is up to him.  I plan no action
> > on my part.
> >
> > As to a comparison with your work - no, I am not investing time in
> > that comparison.  I trust that the reviewers of your work handle that.
> >
> > At 10:57 AM 9/17/2008, you wrote:
> > >Hi Jeff,
> > >
> > >This is response is no response.  Would you care to distinguish 
> between what
> > >Andreas did and what I've done for 18 years in my Gandhi research?
> > >
> > >Nick
> > >
> > >
> > >---- Jeff Harkins <jeffh at moscow.com> wrote:
> > > > At 10:27 AM 9/17/2008, you wrote:
> > > > >Greetings:
> > > > >
> > > > >"I've not followed the exchange between Andreas and Jeff in complete
> > > > >detail ..."
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > That more or less covers my response.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >I'm preparing for a keynote address that I will give on Gandhi's
> > > > >birthday on Oct. 2 at San Diego State University.  When I first
> > > > >started doing my Gandhi research in the early 1990s, it was very
> > > > >difficult to get the primary sources, even through interlibrary
> > > > >loan.  Until I went on sabbatical to India, I relied on secondary
> > > > >sources, especially very fine anthologies of passages arranged by
> > > > >subject and fully documented.
> > > > >
> > > > >When I finally got to India, I was able to sit down and check out
> > > > >references and read for context in Gandhi's Collected Works (100
> > > > >volumes!) and the journals Young India and Harijan.  Very few Gandhi
> > > > >scholars read every page of these huge volumes. That is why we have
> > > > >bibliographers.
> > > > >
> > > > >Gandhi kept meticulous records of everything that happened in his
> > > > >ashrams, and most of that does not make for very edifying
> > > > >reading.  The Collected Works have a very good index, so that was
> > > > >very handy to find the passages that I needed for a particular topic.
> > > > >
> > > > >As soon as finish this post, I will go downstairs to my reading
> > > > >couch and re-read the fabulous anthologies that take me right to the
> > > > >passages that I want to review, and perhaps I'll find some new good
> > > > >ones.  The Collected Works are now on line, but they are even more
> > > > >clumsy to use than the actual books themselves.  For crucial
> > > > >passages I will double check the original references again on line.
> > > > >
> > > > >I believe this is what Andreas did, and if I'm right, then I'm just
> > > > >as guilty of plagiarism as he is.  I wouldn't be invited to San
> > > > >Diego if that is what my colleagues think I did.
> > > > >
> > > > >Nick Gier
> > > > >
> > > > >=======================================================
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> > > >
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> >
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