[Vision2020] [ Re: Palin and library books (correction)
Glenn Schwaller
vpschwaller at gmail.com
Fri Sep 12 13:01:25 PDT 2008
On Fri, Sep 12, 2008 at 12:58 PM, Glenn Schwaller <vpschwaller at gmail.com>wrote:
> As I have pointed out before, our oil import from Iraq has varied from 3.5%
> to 5% since 2002
> (http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbbl_m.htm<http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbbl_m.htm>
> ). With the Iraq confilic coming in at a cost of almost $600 billion, I
> find it hard to believe anyone could continue to believe that this war is
> over less than 5% of our oil imports.
>
> Using a rather loose number of around 1200 million barrels of oil imported
> from Iran and $600 billion for the cost of the war, we can calculate what
> the amount of an 'oil excise tax" would be to help defray the costs of this
> war. This comes out to be around $500 a barrel. Over a 20 year period
> this amounts to an excise tax of $25 per barrel (assuming oil imports remain
> constant). A tax of $20 per barrel for 20 years just to keep a "cheap"
> supply of oil coming from Iraq? Do you really subscribe to this
> nonsense??
>
And you don't think Obama will keep troops in Iraq as part of a permanent
base after he has made good on his promise to bring our troops home? Best
of luck to you on that one as well.
GS
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 12, 2008 at 12:29 PM, Sunil Ramalingam <
> sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Jeff,
>>
>> I'm no more interested in Palin's senior thesis than I am in the Obamas'.
>> I don't think any of them are relevant.
>>
>> I do think how one governs is relevant. I think if Palin disagreed with
>> the position of the police chief she hired, she would have said so, so I
>> think that's relevant. I do think attempting to ban books in the public
>> library is relevant. After the abuses of power we've seen in the Justice
>> Dept. under Bush, I am concerned about her treatment of subordinates who
>> don't do what she wants. And if someone has a problem with how Obama has
>> wielded authority, I'd find that relevant too. If I were appalled enough,
>> it might make me change my vote, though it wouldn't steer me towards McCain.
>>
>> Since I think the Iraq war is all about trying to control Iraq's oil and
>> using that country as a permanent base for our troops, I find her hope that
>> our presence there be part of God's plan naive at best, and appalling in
>> someone who might be president.
>>
>> That's two for the day.
>>
>> Sunil
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 12:14:24 -0700
>> To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
>> From: jeffh at moscow.com
>> Subject: Re: [spam] Re: [Vision2020] [spam] Re: Palin and library books
>>
>> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>
>> Sunil,
>>
>> Thanks for response. An American ideal is that one is presumed innocent
>> until "proven" guilty by a jury of peers.
>>
>> Of course, one is free to say whatever they want (subject to the crying
>> "fire" in a crowded theatre dictum).
>>
>> Investigations of the improper reimbursement issue are quite structured,
>> generally conducted by relatively independent parties - state auditor,
>> independent CPA, special commissions, attorney general, comptroller,
>> treasurer, General Accounting Office and the like.
>>
>> Since the record of an investigation is likely to be reviewed by a higher
>> authority, it is relatively unlikely that the initial investigations would
>> be tainted, biased or intentionally misstated - especially with issues that
>> are receiving so much "air time".
>>
>> One item does seem relevant - why would digging up Obama's thesis be
>> "irrelevant" while Palin's early years be relevant? Is that a double
>> standard?
>>
>> I agree that our lists will have overlap; in fact, they may be remarkably
>> similar. That said, our expectations for dealing with or resolving the
>> issues may be remarkably dissimilar. But how would we know unless we talked
>> about it?
>>
>> Again, thanks for response.
>>
>> At 11:21 AM 9/12/2008, you wrote:
>>
>> Jeff,
>>
>> I see your point re. reimbursement. I just don't agree with it. I don't
>> think there's any obligation to remain silent while awaiting the results of
>> these investigations. I would be quite surprised if any of the
>> investigations go forward without attempts by McCain/Palin to either delay
>> or derail or change the investigation staff. If they succeed then there may
>> not be any reports before the election.
>>
>> I also don't necessarily believe that the reports will be the absolute
>> truth.
>>
>> Now I do think that the press plays a game of 'Gotcha' to the detriment of
>> our political discourse, and they do this to a lot of politicians. Witness
>> the attempts to dig up the Obamas' senior theses. I don't think that was
>> particularly relevant to the election.
>>
>> I think that issues that should be focused on are ignored, as you seem to
>> as well. I also think while our lists of relevant issues may have some
>> overlap, we would have different topics on our respective lists.
>>
>> Obviously anyone can simply delete any posts on subjects they find
>> irrelevant.
>>
>> I'm not going to comment on Tom's posting habits; for myself I try to
>> limit myself to three posts a day, though I know I've posted more often than
>> that from time to time.
>>
>> Sunil
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 00:03:02 -0700
>> To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
>> From: jeffh at moscow.com
>> Subject: Re: [spam] Re: [Vision2020] Palin and library books
>> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>
>> No Sunil, you rather miss my point, but I do appreciate your comments.
>>
>> Hansen posts so frequently on this site that it should really be renamed
>> his blog. He sends reams of links and articles to all the list members. In
>> effect, he has become a filter for the list.
>>
>> Most of what he posts can be found in online news sites and he simply
>> picks and chooses that which he finds interesting.
>>
>> If a list member has an issue, they can post a query to the list and all
>> responses are welcomed. The folks on this list are savvy on web searches
>> and can usually find information to satisfy their demands.
>>
>> Those who find Hansen's posts useful and/or interesting would be better
>> served by a Hansen blog site - easily allowing a quick search reflecting
>> Hansen's biases.
>>
>> You are missing my point on Tom's posting links to articles on Palin's per
>> diem claim. There is an official inquiry going on and the "truth" or facts
>> will be more clear as the investigation continues. Posting links to
>> supposition isn't at all helpful in getting to the core of the matter. For
>> the case in point, AK officials have already stated that her requests are
>> within the boundaries for reimbursable expenses. He did not reference that
>> line of articles.
>>
>> Also, go back and follow the threads on the book banning issue - lots of
>> rhetoric and supposition.
>>
>> It has been my understanding that the viz was intended to be a community
>> forum. It would be nice to return to that venue.
>>
>>
>>
>> At 05:20 PM 9/9/2008, you wrote:
>> It's always difficult to set standards for discourse on a list like
>> this. Jeff doesn't think that Tom should post links to articles on Palin's
>> per diem claims. many others might find the information helpful or
>> interesting.
>>
>> I think Jeff made incorrect statements in his recent post on 9/11, but I
>> wouldn't say he shouldn't have posted his thoughts. I would be interested
>> in his defense of them, but despite my personal views it's certainly not my
>> place to say that they were so far below the bar they shouldn't have been
>> posted. I think that claims that we were attacked because our attackers
>> hate freedom are nonsense, and serve only to head off discussion of the real
>> issues at hand, but people are free to post such stuff. I just think they
>> should be prepared to defend their statements once they've been offered.
>>
>> Sunil
>> ------------------------------
>> Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 10:07:40 -0700
>> To: sslund_2007 at verizon.net
>> From: jeffh at moscow.com
>> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Palin and library books
>>
>> Of course, you have overlooked the fact that it has been reported that a
>> constituent (or group of constituents) had asked her what the procedure was
>> for challenging the book inventory. As a proper role for an elected
>> official, she researched the issue (with the librarian, as I am to
>> understand) and informed the constituent of the procedure and protocol for
>> challenging the book inventory.
>>
>> What is a bit murky, the librarian - reportedly a democrat - chose to use
>> the incident in a political move.
>>
>> Perhaps we will learn more about this.
>>
>> From a cynical perspective, I do hope that the pundits, the democrats, the
>> liberals, the far left and others continue to attack Gov Sarah Palin on
>> family and personal issues. These petty attacks on her character, her
>> religion, her children go a long way to raising her visibility with the
>> voting public.
>>
>> Even the demo candidate Sen Obama has asked for the personal attacks to
>> stop. That hasn't seemed to stop the tenor and vitriol of the attacks.
>> Obama doesn't seem to have much control over those elements.
>>
>> Are the issues not relevant? Maybe we could talk about Biden's 3 sector
>> plan for Iraq. How does Palin feel about that? Perhaps we could explore the
>> VPs' positions on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. What about education - both
>> candidates have a record of positions on education.
>>
>> Raise the bar, please. A recent post (by Hansen) insinuating that Palin
>> was inappropriately using state funds for travel and overnight stays, and
>> using her home for overnight reimbursement. This kind of penmanship terror
>> should stop - Hansen should know better - his tactics are an insult to our
>> locals . You folks are all better than this - and smart enough to ask
>> penetrating and relevant questions.
>>
>> There are numerous articles and newsreports, fully researched, that would
>> reveal the "real story" about Palin's expense reimbursements. Cut to the
>> chase - contact Kim Garnero, Alaska State Finance Director, whose
>> responsibilities include expense reimbursement for state employees.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> t 04:16 PM 9/7/2008, you wrote: Content-type: multipart/alternative;
>> boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0515_01C91105.069D71A0" Content-language:
>> en-us
>> While there's no doubt that Palin discussed (a discussion she's
>> subsequently labeled "rhetorical") banning books with the City's librarian,
>> the book list below canNOT be attributed to Palin. Its origins seems to be
>> this: http://www.adlerbooks.com/banned.html The specific titles of
>> books Palin was interested in banning is of no interest to me; of great
>> interest and concern to me is that banning books was a topic in which Palin
>> had any interest and tells me a great deal about her. Saundra Lund Moscow,
>> ID The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people
>> to do nothing. ~ Edmund Burke ***** Original material contained herein
>> is Copyright 2008 through life plus 70 years, Saundra Lund. Do not copy,
>> forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 2020 forum without the
>> express written permission of the author.***** From:
>> vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [ mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com<vision2020-bounces at moscow.com>]
>> On Behalf Of keely emerinemix Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 2:36 PM To:
>> vision2020 at moscow.com Subject: [Vision2020] Palin and library books
>> >From Jeff's cousin -- interesting information about Sarah Palin and her
>> attempts to get books banned from the Wasilla, Alaska, library when she was
>> mayor.
>> Flicka????!!!!!! Webster's Ninth Collegiate Dictionary?????!!!!
>> OK, I guess "Our Bodies, Ourselves" isn't a surprise . . .
>>
>> Keely http://keely-prevailingwinds.blogspot.com/
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> From: RGPsme at aol.com Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 16:38:09 -0400 Subject: (no
>> subject) To: r.clearwater.arch at comcast.net; cleedesign at yahoo.com;
>> samscat99 at netscape.net; betterthanchocolate at hotmail.com;
>> kjajmix1 at email.msn.com; johnmetc at verizon.net; pnixon18 at hotmail.com;
>> rstockwell at applied-e-s.com; maryginger at yahoo.com
>>
>> Let's spend a few moments browsing the list of books Mayor Sarah Palin
>> tried to get town librarian Mary Ellen Baker to ban in the lovely,
>> all-American town of Wasilla, Alaska. When Baker refused to remove the
>> books from the shelves, Palin threatened to fire her. The story was
>> reported in Time Magazine and the list comes from the librarian.netwebsite.
>> I'm sure you'll find your own personal favorites among the classics Palin
>> wanted to protect the good people of Wasilla from, but the ones that jumped
>> out at me were the four Stephen King novels (way to go Stephen, John
>> Steinbeck only got three titles on the list), that notorious piece of
>> communist pornography "My Friend Flicka," the usual assortment of Harry
>> Potter books, works by Shakespeare, Walt Whitman, Kurt Vonnegut, Mark Twain
>> (always fun to see those two names together), Arthur Miller, and
>> Aristophanes, as well as "Our Bodies, Ourselves" (insert your own Bristol
>> Palin joke here), and the infamous one-two punch of depravity: "To Kill a
>> Mockingbird" and "Little Red Riding Hood." But the cherry on the sundae,
>> the topper, is Sarah Palin's passionate, religious mission to clear the
>> shelves of the Wasilia Public Library of that ultimate evil tome:
>> "Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary." That's the one with "
>> equality," "free speech" and "justice " in it.
>> Go over to your book case and take down one of the books you'll find on
>> the list (I know you've got a couple) and give it a read in honor of the
>> founding fathers. Then tell me I'm not the only voter who doesn't want this
>> woman within thirty feet of the United States Constitution.
>>
>> Sarah Palin's Book Club A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess A
>> Wrinkle in Time by Madeleine L'Engle Annie on My Mind by Nancy Garden As
>> I Lay Dying by William Faulkner Blubber by Judy Blume Brave New World by
>> Aldous Huxley Bridge to Terabithia by Katherine Paterson Canterbury Tales
>> by Chaucer Carrie by Stephen King Catch-22 by Joseph Heller Christine by
>> Stephen King Confessions by Jean-Jacques Rousseau Cujo by Stephen King Curses,
>> Hexes, and Spells by Daniel Cohen Daddy's Roommate by Michael Willhoite Day
>> No Pigs Would Die by Robert Peck Death of a Salesman by Arthur Miller Decameron
>> by Boccaccio East of Eden by John Steinbeck Fallen Angels by Walter Myers
>> Fanny Hill (Memoirs of a Woman of Pleasure) by John Cleland Flowers For
>> Algernon by Daniel Keyes Forever by Judy Blume Grendel by John Champlin
>> Gardner Halloween ABC by Eve Merriam Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's
>> Stone by J.K. Rowling Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets by J.K.
>> Rowling Harry Potter20and the Prizoner of Azkaban by J.K. Rowling Harry
>> Potter and the Goblet of Fire by J.K. Rowling Have to G o by Robert
>> Munsch Heather Has Two Mommies by Leslea Newman How to Eat Fried Worms by
>> Thomas Rockwell Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain I Know Why the Caged Bird
>> Sings by Maya Angelou Impressions edited by Jack Booth In the Night
>> Kitchen by Maurice Sendak It's Okay if You Don't Love Me by Norma Klein James
>> and the Giant Peach by Roald Dahl Lady Chatterley's Lover by D.H.
>> Lawrence Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman Little Red Riding Hood by Jacob
>> and Wilhelm Grimm Lord of the Flies by William Golding Love is One of the
>> Choices by Norma Klein Lysistrata by Aristophanes More Scary Stories in
>> the Dark by Alvin Schwartz My Brother Sam Is Dead by James Lincoln
>> Collier and Christopher Collier My House by Nikki Giovanni M y Friend
>> Flicka by Mary O'Hara Night Chills by Dean Koontz Of Mice and Men by John
>> Steinbeck On My Honor by Marion Dane Bauer One Day in The Life of Ivan
>> Denisovich by Alexander Solzhenitsyn One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest by
>> Ken Kesey One Hundred Years of Solitude by Gabriel Garcia Marquez Ordinary
>> People by Judith Guest Our Bodies, Ourselves by Boston Women's Health
>> Collective Prince of Tides by Pat Conroy Revolting Rhymes by Roald Dahl Scary
>> Stories 3: More Tales to=2 0Chill Your Bones by Alvin Schwartz Scary
>> Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz Separate Peace by John Knowles Silas
>> Marner by George Eliot Slaughte rhouse-Five by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.< br>
>> Tarzan of the Apes by Edgar Rice Burroughs The Adventures of Huckleberry
>> Finn by Mark Twain The Adventures of Tom Sawyer by Mark Twain The Bastard
>> by John Jakes The Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger The Chocolate War
>> by Robert Cormier The Color Purple by Alice Walker The Devil's
>> Alternative by Frederick Forsyth The Figure in the Shadows by John
>> Bellairs The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck The Great Gilly Hopkins by
>> Katherine Paterson The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood The Headless
>> Cupid by Zilpha Snyder The Learning Tree by Gordon Parks The Living Bible
>> by William C. Bower The Merchant of Venice by William Shakespeare The New
>> Teenage Body Book by Kathy McCoy and Charles Wibbelsman The Pigman by
>> Paul Zindel The Seduction of Peter S. by Lawrence Sanders The Shining by
>> Stephen King The Witches by Roald Dahl The Witches of Worm by Zilpha
>> Snyder Then Again, Maybe I Won't by Judy Blume To Kill A Mockingbird by
>> Harper Lee Twelfth Night by William Shakespeare Webster's Ninth New
>> Collegiate Dictionary--Merriam-Webster Editorial Staff Witches, Pumpkins,
>> and Grinning Ghosts: The Story of the Halloween Symbols by Edna Barth =======================================================
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