[Vision2020] [spam] Re: [spam] Re: Palin and library books
Glenn Schwaller
vpschwaller at gmail.com
Fri Sep 12 12:58:53 PDT 2008
As I have pointed out before, our oil import from Iraq has varied from 3.5%
to 5% since 2002
(http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbbl_m.htm<http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbbl_m.htm>
). With the IraqAt a cost of almost $600 billion, I find it hard to believe
anyone could continue to believe that this war is over less than 5% of our
oil imports.
Using a rather loose number of around 1200 million barrels of oil imported
from Iran and $600 billion for the cost of the war, we can calculate what
the amount of an 'oil excise tax" would be to help defray the costs of this
war. This comes out to be around $500 a barrel. Over a 20 year period this
amounts to an excise tax of $25 per barrel (assuming oil imports remain
constant). A tax of $20 per barrel for 20 years just to keep a "cheap"
supply of oil coming from Iraq? Do you really subscribe to this nonsense??
On Fri, Sep 12, 2008 at 12:29 PM, Sunil Ramalingam <
sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Jeff,
>
> I'm no more interested in Palin's senior thesis than I am in the Obamas'.
> I don't think any of them are relevant.
>
> I do think how one governs is relevant. I think if Palin disagreed with
> the position of the police chief she hired, she would have said so, so I
> think that's relevant. I do think attempting to ban books in the public
> library is relevant. After the abuses of power we've seen in the Justice
> Dept. under Bush, I am concerned about her treatment of subordinates who
> don't do what she wants. And if someone has a problem with how Obama has
> wielded authority, I'd find that relevant too. If I were appalled enough,
> it might make me change my vote, though it wouldn't steer me towards McCain.
>
> Since I think the Iraq war is all about trying to control Iraq's oil and
> using that country as a permanent base for our troops, I find her hope that
> our presence there be part of God's plan naive at best, and appalling in
> someone who might be president.
>
> That's two for the day.
>
> Sunil
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 12:14:24 -0700
> To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
> From: jeffh at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [spam] Re: [Vision2020] [spam] Re: Palin and library books
>
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>
> Sunil,
>
> Thanks for response. An American ideal is that one is presumed innocent
> until "proven" guilty by a jury of peers.
>
> Of course, one is free to say whatever they want (subject to the crying
> "fire" in a crowded theatre dictum).
>
> Investigations of the improper reimbursement issue are quite structured,
> generally conducted by relatively independent parties - state auditor,
> independent CPA, special commissions, attorney general, comptroller,
> treasurer, General Accounting Office and the like.
>
> Since the record of an investigation is likely to be reviewed by a higher
> authority, it is relatively unlikely that the initial investigations would
> be tainted, biased or intentionally misstated - especially with issues that
> are receiving so much "air time".
>
> One item does seem relevant - why would digging up Obama's thesis be
> "irrelevant" while Palin's early years be relevant? Is that a double
> standard?
>
> I agree that our lists will have overlap; in fact, they may be remarkably
> similar. That said, our expectations for dealing with or resolving the
> issues may be remarkably dissimilar. But how would we know unless we talked
> about it?
>
> Again, thanks for response.
>
> At 11:21 AM 9/12/2008, you wrote:
>
> Jeff,
>
> I see your point re. reimbursement. I just don't agree with it. I don't
> think there's any obligation to remain silent while awaiting the results of
> these investigations. I would be quite surprised if any of the
> investigations go forward without attempts by McCain/Palin to either delay
> or derail or change the investigation staff. If they succeed then there may
> not be any reports before the election.
>
> I also don't necessarily believe that the reports will be the absolute
> truth.
>
> Now I do think that the press plays a game of 'Gotcha' to the detriment of
> our political discourse, and they do this to a lot of politicians. Witness
> the attempts to dig up the Obamas' senior theses. I don't think that was
> particularly relevant to the election.
>
> I think that issues that should be focused on are ignored, as you seem to
> as well. I also think while our lists of relevant issues may have some
> overlap, we would have different topics on our respective lists.
>
> Obviously anyone can simply delete any posts on subjects they find
> irrelevant.
>
> I'm not going to comment on Tom's posting habits; for myself I try to limit
> myself to three posts a day, though I know I've posted more often than that
> from time to time.
>
> Sunil
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 00:03:02 -0700
> To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
> From: jeffh at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [spam] Re: [Vision2020] Palin and library books
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>
> No Sunil, you rather miss my point, but I do appreciate your comments.
>
> Hansen posts so frequently on this site that it should really be renamed
> his blog. He sends reams of links and articles to all the list members. In
> effect, he has become a filter for the list.
>
> Most of what he posts can be found in online news sites and he simply picks
> and chooses that which he finds interesting.
>
> If a list member has an issue, they can post a query to the list and all
> responses are welcomed. The folks on this list are savvy on web searches
> and can usually find information to satisfy their demands.
>
> Those who find Hansen's posts useful and/or interesting would be better
> served by a Hansen blog site - easily allowing a quick search reflecting
> Hansen's biases.
>
> You are missing my point on Tom's posting links to articles on Palin's per
> diem claim. There is an official inquiry going on and the "truth" or facts
> will be more clear as the investigation continues. Posting links to
> supposition isn't at all helpful in getting to the core of the matter. For
> the case in point, AK officials have already stated that her requests are
> within the boundaries for reimbursable expenses. He did not reference that
> line of articles.
>
> Also, go back and follow the threads on the book banning issue - lots of
> rhetoric and supposition.
>
> It has been my understanding that the viz was intended to be a community
> forum. It would be nice to return to that venue.
>
>
>
> At 05:20 PM 9/9/2008, you wrote:
> It's always difficult to set standards for discourse on a list like
> this. Jeff doesn't think that Tom should post links to articles on Palin's
> per diem claims. many others might find the information helpful or
> interesting.
>
> I think Jeff made incorrect statements in his recent post on 9/11, but I
> wouldn't say he shouldn't have posted his thoughts. I would be interested
> in his defense of them, but despite my personal views it's certainly not my
> place to say that they were so far below the bar they shouldn't have been
> posted. I think that claims that we were attacked because our attackers
> hate freedom are nonsense, and serve only to head off discussion of the real
> issues at hand, but people are free to post such stuff. I just think they
> should be prepared to defend their statements once they've been offered.
>
> Sunil
> ------------------------------
> Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 10:07:40 -0700
> To: sslund_2007 at verizon.net
> From: jeffh at moscow.com
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Palin and library books
>
> Of course, you have overlooked the fact that it has been reported that a
> constituent (or group of constituents) had asked her what the procedure was
> for challenging the book inventory. As a proper role for an elected
> official, she researched the issue (with the librarian, as I am to
> understand) and informed the constituent of the procedure and protocol for
> challenging the book inventory.
>
> What is a bit murky, the librarian - reportedly a democrat - chose to use
> the incident in a political move.
>
> Perhaps we will learn more about this.
>
> From a cynical perspective, I do hope that the pundits, the democrats, the
> liberals, the far left and others continue to attack Gov Sarah Palin on
> family and personal issues. These petty attacks on her character, her
> religion, her children go a long way to raising her visibility with the
> voting public.
>
> Even the demo candidate Sen Obama has asked for the personal attacks to
> stop. That hasn't seemed to stop the tenor and vitriol of the attacks.
> Obama doesn't seem to have much control over those elements.
>
> Are the issues not relevant? Maybe we could talk about Biden's 3 sector
> plan for Iraq. How does Palin feel about that? Perhaps we could explore the
> VPs' positions on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. What about education - both
> candidates have a record of positions on education.
>
> Raise the bar, please. A recent post (by Hansen) insinuating that Palin
> was inappropriately using state funds for travel and overnight stays, and
> using her home for overnight reimbursement. This kind of penmanship terror
> should stop - Hansen should know better - his tactics are an insult to our
> locals . You folks are all better than this - and smart enough to ask
> penetrating and relevant questions.
>
> There are numerous articles and newsreports, fully researched, that would
> reveal the "real story" about Palin's expense reimbursements. Cut to the
> chase - contact Kim Garnero, Alaska State Finance Director, whose
> responsibilities include expense reimbursement for state employees.
>
> Thanks.
>
> t 04:16 PM 9/7/2008, you wrote: Content-type: multipart/alternative;
> boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0515_01C91105.069D71A0" Content-language:
> en-us
> While there's no doubt that Palin discussed (a discussion she's
> subsequently labeled "rhetorical") banning books with the City's librarian,
> the book list below canNOT be attributed to Palin. Its origins seems to be
> this: http://www.adlerbooks.com/banned.html The specific titles of books
> Palin was interested in banning is of no interest to me; of great interest
> and concern to me is that banning books was a topic in which Palin had any
> interest and tells me a great deal about her. Saundra Lund Moscow, ID
> The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
> nothing. ~ Edmund Burke ***** Original material contained herein is
> Copyright 2008 through life plus 70 years, Saundra Lund. Do not copy,
> forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 2020 forum without the
> express written permission of the author.***** From:
> vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [ mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com<vision2020-bounces at moscow.com>]
> On Behalf Of keely emerinemix Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 2:36 PM To:
> vision2020 at moscow.com Subject: [Vision2020] Palin and library books
> >From Jeff's cousin -- interesting information about Sarah Palin and her
> attempts to get books banned from the Wasilla, Alaska, library when she was
> mayor.
> Flicka????!!!!!! Webster's Ninth Collegiate Dictionary?????!!!!
> OK, I guess "Our Bodies, Ourselves" isn't a surprise . . .
>
> Keely http://keely-prevailingwinds.blogspot.com/
>
> ------------------------------
> From: RGPsme at aol.com Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 16:38:09 -0400 Subject: (no
> subject) To: r.clearwater.arch at comcast.net; cleedesign at yahoo.com;
> samscat99 at netscape.net; betterthanchocolate at hotmail.com;
> kjajmix1 at email.msn.com; johnmetc at verizon.net; pnixon18 at hotmail.com;
> rstockwell at applied-e-s.com; maryginger at yahoo.com
>
> Let's spend a few moments browsing the list of books Mayor Sarah Palin
> tried to get town librarian Mary Ellen Baker to ban in the lovely,
> all-American town of Wasilla, Alaska. When Baker refused to remove the
> books from the shelves, Palin threatened to fire her. The story was
> reported in Time Magazine and the list comes from the librarian.netwebsite.
> I'm sure you'll find your own personal favorites among the classics Palin
> wanted to protect the good people of Wasilla from, but the ones that jumped
> out at me were the four Stephen King novels (way to go Stephen, John
> Steinbeck only got three titles on the list), that notorious piece of
> communist pornography "My Friend Flicka," the usual assortment of Harry
> Potter books, works by Shakespeare, Walt Whitman, Kurt Vonnegut, Mark Twain
> (always fun to see those two names together), Arthur Miller, and
> Aristophanes, as well as "Our Bodies, Ourselves" (insert your own Bristol
> Palin joke here), and the infamous one-two punch of depravity: "To Kill a
> Mockingbird" and "Little Red Riding Hood." But the cherry on the sundae,
> the topper, is Sarah Palin's passionate, religious mission to clear the
> shelves of the Wasilia Public Library of that ultimate evil tome:
> "Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary." That's the one with "
> equality," "free speech" and "justice " in it.
> Go over to your book case and take down one of the books you'll find on the
> list (I know you've got a couple) and give it a read in honor of the
> founding fathers. Then tell me I'm not the only voter who doesn't want this
> woman within thirty feet of the United States Constitution.
>
> Sarah Palin's Book Club A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess A Wrinkle
> in Time by Madeleine L'Engle Annie on My Mind by Nancy Garden As I Lay
> Dying by William Faulkner Blubber by Judy Blume Brave New World by Aldous
> Huxley Bridge to Terabithia by Katherine Paterson Canterbury Tales by
> Chaucer Carrie by Stephen King Catch-22 by Joseph Heller Christine by
> Stephen King Confessions by Jean-Jacques Rousseau Cujo by Stephen King Curses,
> Hexes, and Spells by Daniel Cohen Daddy's Roommate by Michael Willhoite Day
> No Pigs Would Die by Robert Peck Death of a Salesman by Arthur Miller Decameron
> by Boccaccio East of Eden by John Steinbeck Fallen Angels by Walter Myers Fanny
> Hill (Memoirs of a Woman of Pleasure) by John Cleland Flowers For Algernon
> by Daniel Keyes Forever by Judy Blume Grendel by John Champlin Gardner Halloween
> ABC by Eve Merriam Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone by J.K. Rowling Harry
> Potter and the Chamber of Secrets by J.K. Rowling Harry Potter20and the
> Prizoner of Azkaban by J.K. Rowling Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire by
> J.K. Rowling Have to G o by Robert Munsch Heather Has Two Mommies by
> Leslea Newman How to Eat Fried Worms by Thomas Rockwell Huckleberry Finn
> by Mark Twain I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings by Maya Angelou Impressions
> edited by Jack Booth In the Night Kitchen by Maurice Sendak It's Okay if
> You Don't Love Me by Norma Klein James and the Giant Peach by Roald Dahl Lady
> Chatterley's Lover by D.H. Lawrence Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman Little
> Red Riding Hood by Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm Lord of the Flies by William
> Golding Love is One of the Choices by Norma Klein Lysistrata by
> Aristophanes More Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz My Brother
> Sam Is Dead by James Lincoln Collier and Christopher Collier My House by
> Nikki Giovanni M y Friend Flicka by Mary O'Hara Night Chills by Dean
> Koontz Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck On My Honor by Marion Dane Bauer One
> Day in The Life of Ivan Denisovich by Alexander Solzhenitsyn One Flew Over
> The Cuckoo's Nest by Ken Kesey One Hundred Years of Solitude by Gabriel
> Garcia Marquez Ordinary People by Judith Guest Our Bodies, Ourselves by
> Boston Women's Health Collective Prince of Tides by Pat Conroy Revolting
> Rhymes by Roald Dahl Scary Stories 3: More Tales to=2 0Chill Your Bones by
> Alvin Schwartz Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz Separate Peace
> by John Knowles Silas Marner by George Eliot Slaughte rhouse-Five by Kurt
> Vonnegut, Jr.< br> Tarzan of the Apes by Edgar Rice Burroughs The
> Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain The Adventures of Tom Sawyer
> by Mark Twain The Bastard by John Jakes The Catcher in the Rye by J.D.
> Salinger The Chocolate War by Robert Cormier The Color Purple by Alice
> Walker The Devil's Alternative by Frederick Forsyth The Figure in the
> Shadows by John Bellairs The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck The Great
> Gilly Hopkins by Katherine Paterson The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood
> The Headless Cupid by Zilpha Snyder The Learning Tree by Gordon Parks The
> Living Bible by William C. Bower The Merchant of Venice by William
> Shakespeare The New Teenage Body Book by Kathy McCoy and Charles
> Wibbelsman The Pigman by Paul Zindel The Seduction of Peter S. by Lawrence
> Sanders The Shining by Stephen King The Witches by Roald Dahl The Witches
> of Worm by Zilpha Snyder Then Again, Maybe I Won't by Judy Blume To Kill A
> Mockingbird by Harper Lee Twelfth Night by William Shakespeare Webster's
> Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary--Merriam-Webster Editorial Staff Witches,
> Pumpkins, and Grinning Ghosts: The Story of the Halloween Symbols by Edna
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