[Vision2020] If the shoe was on the other foot (was A Plea to Saundra Lund)

[Glenn Schwaller]

Mr Rumelhart,

As far as I can tell all of these "lost civil liberties" you cite
pertain to a small group housed in Guantanamo who have been, perhaps
in some instances, falsely accused of being or supporting terrorists.
I think the largest number of inmates held there was around 700 or so
and giving 50 percent of them the benefit of the doubt, 350 were
"unjustly detained and suffered from an "erosion of (their) civil
liberties".  I am much more worried about the loss of civil liberties
which will ultimately affect over 300 million with unprecedented
assaults on our 1st and 2nd amendment rights, just for starters.  This
I believe will be but a springboard to the damage this man will
inflict.  So in this argument, you fail.

Both Obama and his running mate, Sen. Joe Biden, have indicated that
an Obama administration would use its control of the Justice
Department to prosecute its political opponents.  James Walsh of the
Justice Department's Civil Rights Section has stated that there will
be a push, under the Obama administration, for criminal prosecution
against those they ANTICIPATE (my caps) will engage in voter
"intimidation" or "oppression" in an election involving a black
candidate. And the list goes on.

Yes I pay taxes - and I have no problem doing so with the expectation
they will be used to defend my country, provide a decent K-12
education, maintain our highways, federal parks and forests, provide
police and fire protection and emergency service and the list goes on.
 And I further expect EVERYONE to contribute to this fairly, by the
use of a flat tax levied on EVERYONE (pardon my naivete).  As one
example, I do NOT support giving 25 cents much less a maximum of $250
in "excess tax" (as Chuck Pezeshki enumerates) to anyone who lacks the
ambition to even attempt to provide for him or herself.  If I choose
to donate to a charity to provide for these individuals, let it be
exactly that:  MY choice.  Anything less than that is most definitely
an "erosion of (my) civil liberties" and any freethinking individual
will not stand for that.

GS

On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 9:23 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Glenn Schwaller wrote:
>>
>> Or the losing of "civil liberties"?  It's already in the making -
>> "redistribution of the wealth" without consent - seems to me my
>> involuntary giving of $$ to lazy, unmotivated slugs is a slight on my
>> liberties.  Being forced to provide some government-mandated health
>> care plan not of my choosing to my employees?  Smacks of a loss of
>> freedom to me.  Having to accept that health care plan or nothing?
>> Huh.  No "choice" there.  A mandate to give up my $$ to provide a
>> college education to someone I don't know (apart from the GI Bill
>> which I gladly support)?  Hmmm . . .  more loss of choice to me.  I
>> say let them earn their way through as Dr Joe and I did and let ME
>> decide who to give MY $$ to.
>>
>
> Mr. Schwaller.  Really, listen to yourself.  In this age of torture,
> waterboarding, rendition, illegal wiretaps, infiltration of harmless
> political groups, free speech zones, loss of habeus corpus and other such
> nonsense, you're saying that having to pay taxes is an erosion of your civil
> liberties?  Honestly?  Don't you pay taxes right now?
>
> Paul
>
>> Yep - real hogwash there my friend.
>>
>> GS
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 3:42 PM, Sunil Ramalingam
>> <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Glenn,
>>>
>>> Since your scenario is hogwash, I'm certain I won't have to say "So
>>> What?"
>>>
>>> Sunil
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 14:42:22 -0700
>>>> From: vpschwaller at gmail.com
>>>> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>> Subject: [Vision2020] If the shoe was on the other foot (was A Plea to
>>>> Saundra Lund)
>>>>
>>>> I have no doubt that if it was shown President Bush or Senator McCain
>>>> had any kind of connection whatsoever to Mark Rudd, John Jacobs, Bill
>>>> Ayers, Jim Mellen, Terry Robbins,
>>>> Karen Ashley, Jeff Jones, Gerry Long, Steve Tappis, Mark Rudd or David
>>>> Gilbert you people would be screaming impeach impeach impeach,
>>>> invalidate, invalidate, invalidate as loudly as your collective voices
>>>> would allow.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps the "youthful indiscretions" of Ayers, Dohrn, Thomas Good,
>>>> Carl Davidson, Mike Klonsky et al. could be forgiven and forgotten as
>>>> just that if they were to offer even a modicum of repentance and
>>>> regret for their past behaviors. Unfortunately, their current stand
>>>> is "the only thing we regret we didn't do more then, and we'd love to
>>>> do more now". So yes Mr Rumelhart, I believe there is quite a bit to
>>>> fear, and my greatest fears are that when more-likely-than-not
>>>> President Obama begins to tear this country apart it's going to make
>>>> the loss of "civil liberties" under the Bush administration look like
>>>> chump change, and those who proudly put Obama there will say exactly
>>>> what they say now: "So what".
>>>>
>>>> GS
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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