[Vision2020] An Obama Dilemma
Steven Basoa
sbasoa at moscow.com
Sat Oct 4 15:45:07 PDT 2008
This is a plea on the behalf of the other 3 or 4 hundred of us on
this list whose delete-button fingers are getting extremely worn
out. Will you people please stop with this asinine thread. You all
know what a troll is and you also know that a troll thrives on people
responding to his/hers/it's posts. So maybe, just maybe, if you all
stop responding to this troll, it will go away. Or maybe, if "NW"
really wants people to take it's message seriously, then it will grow
up and start posting with it's real name (haha, I am so funny). "NW"
won't post under it's real name because it and it's buddies in the
back room are having a great laugh at your expense. The troll baits
and you all jump at the line. Every time. Especially you Joe C.
Won't you realize that it has purposely targeted you because you grab
hold of that line and won't let go? It doesn't matter how much money
you offer to meet it in a public place. Trolls live and thrive in
muck and feces and excel at throwing it about. Money means nothing
to them. This troll baits you so well that the best thing I can say
about NW is that it is a master baiter. You respond, it spews. Once
you all figure this fact out and start ignoring NW's posts, you just
might find that you have more time for the finer things in life. And
the rest of us might start getting some feeling back in our delete-
key fingers.
And no GC, before you ask, I'm not trying to be the "conversation
monitor", I'm just trying to get the maturity level of this forum out
of the gutter and back up to at least a juvenile level.
Sardonically yours,
Joe Bob Whatever
(PS: I know, I know: delete, delete, delete...)
(PPS: Carl, Angelina called. She wants to have dinner with you on
the second tuesday of next week.)
SB
On Oct 4, 2008, at 11:33 AM, <joekc at roadrunner.com> wrote:
I'll play for one minute but I really am busy today.
Remind me again of argument (A) and tell me the fallacy that you
think I committed. I'm curious.
This is not a condition but please tell me why you don't want to
collect an easy $100. Honestly,
I'm interested in knowing why you could possibly want to hide your
identity unless my assumptions
are correct. I'm looking for one reason and you owe it to others to
give it if we're to take you seriously. Again if you want to ignore
this and just reply to the first question, I'll play a bit longer.
But I feel like a bit of a fool, in all honesty, so I won't play long.
--
Joe Campbell
---- No Weatherman <no.weatherman at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dr. Campbell,
>
> I applaud you for changing the subject and I will applaud you even
> more if you (A) answer my question or (B) identify for this forum the
> fallacy you committed.
>
>
>
> On 10/4/08, joekc at roadrunner.com <joekc at roadrunner.com> wrote:
>> This is evidence that I'm not reading your posts very carefully,
>> nothing more.
>>
>> I'll give you $100 to have lunch with me today. If not, you set
>> the time and place. You won't do it.
>> Am I supposed to act like this is not evidence that you are
>> afraid to let folks know who you are?
>> Am I supposed to pretend that this is not relevant information to
>> the issue at hand? Should I
>> ignore it? Why on earth would someone forgo an easy $100 and the
>> chance of proving me wrong?
>>
>> Try explaining that and maybe people will listen to you.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Joe Campbell
>>
>> ---- No Weatherman <no.weatherman at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Dr. Campbell,
>>>
>>> Actually, you asked several questions but here is how I answered
>>> this
>>> particular question the first time:
>>>
>>> "I am in the country and I sincerely appreciate the offer but I'll
>>> take a rain check. Now, what fallacy, if any, are you committing
>>> when
>>> you infer a false conclusion from my answer?"
>>>
>>> Hopefully, this will satisfy you.
>>>
>>> Now, you have not answered my question: Did you, or did you not
>>> describe your "as far as I can tell" "reasoned opinion" as a "fact"?
>>>
>>> I hope your schedule is not so busy that cannot give an honest
>>> answer
>>> to this question because in answering it truthfully, you can
>>> begin to
>>> deconstruct the straw man you've been struggling with.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/4/08, joekc at roadrunner.com <joekc at roadrunner.com> wrote:
>>>> I'm sorry but I'm having a hard time understanding this as a
>>>> response to my last question, so I'll
>>>> be more direct.
>>>>
>>>> Do you want to have lunch today or not? I'll treat. If you
>>>> can't make it, I understand. You respect
>>>> me so why not sit down with me for lunch and we can talk this
>>>> all out. If you convince me that
>>>> you are not either a critic of Christ Church or affiliated with
>>>> Christ Church, I'll issue an apology.
>>>>
>>>> I have a busy schedule today. I need to know asap. If you can't
>>>> make it, just let me know.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Joe Campbell
>>>>
>>>> ---- No Weatherman <no.weatherman at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> "This is really a silly game. Below is just another bad
>>>>> argument. Some
>>>>> of your opinions are facts and some not and it is doubtful that
>>>>> you
>>>>> are the best judge about which is which."
>>>>>
>>>>> I noted your fallacies and you call it "silly" and "another bad
>>>>> argument." I wonder what the technical name for that one is.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Also, why should I answer your questions if you don't answer
>>>>> mine?
>>>>> That's not fair."
>>>>>
>>>>> I caught you equivocating, or having it both ways, with the word
>>>>> "fact" and when I called you on it, you ignored my question and
>>>>> proceeded to ask me a string of loaded questions. If this is
>>>>> not true,
>>>>> please show me where I'm wrong. Otherwise, don't complain about
>>>>> "fair"
>>>>> to me.
>>>>>
>>>>> "And why are you so upset about this? If you are not either a
>>>>> critic
>>>>> of Christ Church or affiliated with Christ Church, why would it
>>>>> bother
>>>>> you that someone thought that you were?"
>>>>>
>>>>> I am not the least bit upset, I am not bothered at all, and you
>>>>> cannot
>>>>> produce any evidence to the contrary. However, I can produce
>>>>> several
>>>>> posts written by you, Ms. Mix, Ms. Lund, and Mr. Hanson where
>>>>> you four
>>>>> have been extremely upset and bothered. You are projecting your
>>>>> traits
>>>>> on me.
>>>>>
>>>>> "I must say if you are trying to prove that you're not, you are
>>>>> doing
>>>>> a very bad job. Not nearly as bad as your case against Obama
>>>>> but still
>>>>> pretty bad. And it is silly indeed since you could prove your
>>>>> point
>>>>> easily by using your real name, or meeting me for lunch later
>>>>> today.
>>>>> I'll treat! Of course, if you can't since you're, say, out of the
>>>>> country, that would explain a lot!"
>>>>>
>>>>> I am in the country and I sincerely appreciate the offer but
>>>>> I'll take
>>>>> a rain check. Now, what fallacy, if any, are you committing
>>>>> when you
>>>>> infer a false conclusion from my answer?
>>>>>
>>>>> "Anyway, if you won't use your name or meet me for lunch, I'll
>>>>> have to
>>>>> go back to trying to ignore you. Not that I'm very good at it
>>>>> but I'll
>>>>> try to be better!"
>>>>>
>>>>> You're very good at misquoting me and misrepresenting me, and
>>>>> you're
>>>>> even better at evading responsibility for your dishonest
>>>>> statements.
>>>>> But I'm struggling with all those posts that you wrote
>>>>> insisting that
>>>>> you never read a word I wrote, yet, now, suddenly and
>>>>> miraculously,
>>>>> you have the uncanny ability as a trained logician to describe the
>>>>> previously and until-now ignored posts as full of "fallacy after
>>>>> fallacy."
>>>>>
>>>>> Rather than ignoring me, I would appreciate it if you actually
>>>>> tried
>>>>> to engage me — or better yet, engage my one single point that
>>>>> has thus
>>>>> far gone unnoticed by the handful of extremely vocal Obama
>>>>> supporters
>>>>> on this list.
>>>>>
>>>>> Barrack Hussein Obama is 47 years old but 20 of his years are a
>>>>> complete mystery to America. In the modern history of the US
>>>>> the press
>>>>> has never given any candidate such a pass as they have given
>>>>> Obama,
>>>>> and yet none of the Obama supporters on this list appear the
>>>>> least bit
>>>>> bothered by these facts.
>>>>>
>>>>> Since I originally engaged you, I have had one question in
>>>>> mind: How
>>>>> do you account for this, Dr. Campbell?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10/4/08, joekc at roadrunner.com <joekc at roadrunner.com> wrote:
>>>>>> This is really a silly game. Below is just another bad
>>>>>> argument. Some of your opinions are facts
>>>>>> and some not and it is doubtful that you are the best judge
>>>>>> about which is which.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, why should I answer your questions if you don't answer
>>>>>> mine? That's not fair.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And why are you so upset about this? If you are not either a
>>>>>> critic of Christ Church or
>>>>>> affiliated with Christ Church, why would it bother you that
>>>>>> someone thought that you were?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I must say if you are trying to prove that you're not, you
>>>>>> are doing a very bad job. Not nearly as
>>>>>> bad as your case against Obama but still pretty bad. And it
>>>>>> is silly indeed since you could prove
>>>>>> your point easily by using your real name, or meeting me for
>>>>>> lunch later today. I'll treat!
>>>>>> Of course, if you can't since you're, say, out of the
>>>>>> country, that would explain a lot!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, if you won't use your name or meet me for lunch, I'll
>>>>>> have to go back to trying to ignore
>>>>>> you. Not that I'm very good at it but I'll try to be better!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Joe Campbell
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---- No Weatherman <no.weatherman at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> I read your words very carefully, because you concluded by
>>>>>>> jumping
>>>>>>> from "as far as I can tell" to "isn't this FACT telling?"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As far as I can tell you concluded by calling it a "fact." Is my
>>>>>>> reasoned opinion wrong, good Doctor?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10/4/08, joekc at roadrunner.com <joekc at roadrunner.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> I said as far as I can tell, it is a reflection of my own
>>>>>>>> reasoned opinion. And I said anonymous
>>>>>>>> posters are either supporters or critics. Please read my
>>>>>>>> words more carefully.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And that conclusion follows with a good deal more certainty
>>>>>>>> than any of your conclusions about
>>>>>>>> Obama, which are all -- everyone of them -- based on
>>>>>>>> fallacies.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What reason is there for your curious double-standard, that
>>>>>>>> I need to prove my claims yet you can
>>>>>>>> make any reckless statement you want without a hint of real
>>>>>>>> support?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And why not deny the allegation if you thought I made it
>>>>>>>> and it is false. You are curious indeed!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And as others have asked time and time again, what possible
>>>>>>>> reason is there for you to post
>>>>>>>> anonymously if you are not trying to hide some affiliation?
>>>>>>>> Use your real name and I'll be done.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Joe Campbell
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---- No Weatherman <no.weatherman at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> AHA!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What evidence can Dr. Campbell produce to show that I am
>>>>>>>>> either a folk
>>>>>>>>> of Christ Church or a critic of Christ Church?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Some of you would do well to answer this question and do
>>>>>>>>> some self-examination.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 10/4/08, joekc at roadrunner.com <joekc at roadrunner.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> What evidence is there that the five noted by Gary below
>>>>>>>>>> are "left wing"? In fact, what they all
>>>>>>>>>> have in common is that they were critics of Christ
>>>>>>>>>> Church. That is it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So the anonymous posts, as far as I can tell, are either
>>>>>>>>>> from folks at Christ Church or from
>>>>>>>>>> critics of Christ Church. Does anyone have a
>>>>>>>>>> counterexample to this and isn't this fact telling?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Joe Campbell
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ---- "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I believe that Rodger means that the names were brought
>>>>>>>>>>> up (listed) by
>>>>>>>>>>> myself and someone else as examples of anonymous posters.
>>>>>>>>>>> Not that those
>>>>>>>>>>> vision members were posting currently.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> g
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Craine Kit" <kcraine at verizon.net>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "Chasuk" <chasuk at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 8:24 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] An Obama Dilemma
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't get any postings by either "heridotus" or "Ford
>>>>>>>>>>>> yesterday.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I haven't seen anything from either in quite some
>>>>>>>>>>>> while. Am I
>>>>>>>>>>>> missing something?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Kit Craine
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 3, 2008, at 12:36 PM, Chasuk wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 12:31, lfalen
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There were about 5 listed in posts yesterday by Gary
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and someone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else. Two of them were Heridotus and Ford.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ah. I would consider J.Ford more a harmless crank than
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a real
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "left-winger." The others I am unfamiliar with.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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