[Vision2020] John McCain not Born in US, But Panama
Donovan Arnold
donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
Sat Nov 1 15:50:11 PDT 2008
1) "No one has established with certainty Obama's place of birth"
Obama's mother was a US citizen. So Obama is a natural born citizen. It doesn't matter where he was born. Hawaii, Kenya, or the Moon.
2) "If he was born in Hawaii, he lost his US citizenship when
> Indonesia naturalized him because Indonesia does not allow dual
> citizenship."
National Indonesian law does not overrule or determine US Constitutional law regarding US citizenship. Indonesian, China, Russia, Kenya, or any nation that wants can claim anyone as its citizen, you, me, or Obama, but that doesn't change our citizenship status. US law is the only thing that does. Indonesian law is meaningless. Indonesian law does not have the authority to dissolve ANY US Citizen's citizenship.
3) If Obama was born in Kenya, Indonesia, or on the Moon, to a parent who was a US Citizen, he would have been presented by the Department of State with the option of renouncing his US citizenship on his 18th birthday in favor of the other nation(s).
Best Regards,
Donovan
--- On Sat, 11/1/08, Ellen Roskovich <gussie443 at hotmail.com> wrote:
From: Ellen Roskovich <gussie443 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] John McCain not Born in US, But Panama
To: "No Weatherman" <no.weatherman at gmail.com>, "Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 6:53 AM
#yiv1022231595 .hmmessage P
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Please contact the State Department with your concerns. It is your duty and we cannot help you.
Now go away.
Ellen A. Roskovich
> Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 06:39:58 -0700
> From: no.weatherman at gmail.com
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] John McCain not Born in US, But Panama
>
> Ms Roskovich:
>
> Good summary.
>
> But I think you're wrong on this one:
>
> "And Obama was born to a natural born mother in the state of Hawaii
> and it doesn't matter if he was dragged as a kid half-way around the
> world and attended schools in other countries . . . he's good to go.
> I'm sure this has been hashed out years ago by a multitude of
> lawyers."
>
> No one has established with certainty Obama's place of birth.
>
> Problem 1: His grandmother says it was Kenya and he says it was Hawaii.
>
> Problem 2: If he was born in Hawaii, he lost his US citizenship when
> Indonesia naturalized him because Indonesia does not allow dual
> citizenship.
>
> Problem 3: If he reapplied for USC (assuming he had NBC status), could
> he recover his NBC status or would he be a USC?
>
> If he wins, a multitude of lawyers will be forced to hash this out
> because the question's never been asked let alone answered.
>
> And if the question of NBC hangs on "divided loyalties," then I think it's over.
>
> He can't argue that his loyalties are not divided.
>
> Case in point: Odinga.
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 6:18 AM, Ellen Roskovich <gussie443 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Yep. . . . that's what everyone thinks. But I also think the law might be
> > a little more complicated than that on a case by case basis. I would hope I
> > was given the correct info in London 40 years ago. . . . not that it matters
> > now because we jumped through all the hoops necessary and Kathleen has never
> > expressed any desire to run for office. Getting her very own passport for
> > the first time was an interesting experience though. . . especially when the
> > clerk at Latah County courthouse, holding a certified copy of her birth
> > issued from the archives at Washington, D.C., tells immigration in Seattle
> > that she "has no proof of citizenship".
> >
> > Because this could drag on and on in a back and
> > forth unnecessary discussion, I will tell you what I was told in London
> > right up front 40 years ago.
> >
> > As I stated before. . . Kathleen was born in a U.S. military hospital in the
> > U.K. My first husband was in the military and at the time of her birth was
> > in Vietnam and not assigned to a base there in the U.K. Maybe the Status of
> > Forces Agreement doesn't apply in the same way in this case. Also, my first
> > husband was born outside the U.S. and was a naturalized citizen. So only
> > one of Kathleen's parents was a natural born citizen. A very
> > serious government official took me in his office and stressed the
> > importance of me understanding that my daughter's citizenship was
> > "conditional" at this time and she would have to reside in the United States
> > for seven consecutive years between the ages of 14 and 28. That's when I
> > asked if she could ever become president and I was told "no".
> >
> > So that's the story in a nutshell.
> >
> > And in mulling it all over I would guess McCain's dad was probably assigned
> > to duty in Panama and both his parents were natural born citizens. . . . so
> > he's good to go. And Obama was born to a natural born mother in the state
> > of Hawaii and it doesn't matter if he was dragged as a kid half-way around
> > the world and attended schools in other countries. . . he's good to go. I'm
> > sure this has been hashed out years ago by a multitude of lawyers.
> >
> > So. . . . go vote. And after you vote for that one, you'll have a little
> > smile on your face because you've just exercised your right as a citizen.
> >
> > Ellen A. Roskovich
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 04:34:07 -0700
> > From: jeanlivingston at turbonet.com
> > To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com; vision2020 at moscow.com;
> > gussie443 at hotmail.com
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] John McCain not Born in US, But Panama
> >
> >
> > Donovan's understanding accords with mine. If one of your parents was a US
> > Citizen when you were born, then you are a citizen, too, regardless of where
> > you were born.
> > Bruce Livingston
> >
> > -----Original message-----
> > From: Donovan Arnold donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> > Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2008 01:46:01 -0700
> > To: vision2020 at moscow.com, Ellen Roskovich gussie443 at hotmail.com
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] John McCain not Born in US, But Panama
> >
> >> Ellen,
> >>
> >> As I understand the law (,8 USC 1401) a person is a natural born citizen
> >> of the United States if they were;
> >>
> >> A) Born on US soil. Any state or territory.
> >>
> >> B) Either one of their parents was a US Citizen at the time of their birth
> >> but born on foreign soil.
> >>
> >> A naturalized citizen is one that is not a US citizen at birth. Anyone who
> >> became a citizen later on in life is not allowed to be President or
> >> Vice-President.
> >>
> >> Best Regards,
> >>
> >> Donovan
> >>
> >> --- On Fri, 10/31/08, Ellen Roskovich wrote:
> >>
> >> From: Ellen Roskovich
> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] John McCain not Born in US, But Panama
> >> To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com, vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 2:25 PM
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> #yiv2119640095 .hmmessage P
> >> {
> >> margin:0px;padding:0px;}
> >> #yiv2119640095 {
> >> FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma;}
> >>
> >> I have read that since he, McCain, was born in a U.S. Naval Hospital in
> >> Panama, he is considered a native born citizen. . . and this is where I get
> >> a little fuzzy. Is this a new rule? Because my oldest daughter was born in
> >> the U.K. at RAF Lakenheath, a U.S. Airforce Hospital and when I registered
> >> her birth at the U.S. Embassy in London, I asked if she could run for
> >> President and I was told "no". Of course I might have had a clerk who
> >> didn't know the rules, but surely I wasn't the first person to ask that
> >> question.
> >>
> >> Like I said. . . . I'm a little fuzzy about the qualifications of that
> >> McCain guy, but last time I checked, Hawaii was a state.
> >>
> >> Ellen A. Roskovich
> >>
> >> P.S. Avoid lines, vote early and then spend Tuesday helping others get
> >> out to vote.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 14:06:54 -0700
> >> From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> >> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> Subject: [Vision2020] John McCain not Born in US, But Panama
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> John McCain was not born in the US. and using Republican arguments against
> >> Obama, McCain is thus not qualified to be President.
> >>
> >> McCain was born in Panama.
> >>
> >> Best Regards,
> >>
> >> Donovan
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> You live life beyond your PC. So now Windows goes beyond your PC. See how
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > ________________________________
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