[Vision2020] [Bulk] Re: Uninsured adults 25 percent more likely to die
Donovan Arnold
donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
Sat Mar 29 11:56:42 PDT 2008
Paul,
I don't know where you get your information, but the government doesn't pay for my medical care. I don't get any medical care. I cannot afford $300 an office visit. Just isn't in my budget.
Now a person with insurance only pays $25 an office visit. I could afford the $25, but not the $300.
Where you cut medical costs is in the overcharging of people at the top. $300 an hour is grossly morally corrupt, and that is where the money goes. It doesn't go to the CNA, the CAPS, the Nurses, or medical staff, it goes to the stock holders, corporate lawyers, doctors, and CEOs. It goes to greedy people that feel they are entitled to make in an hour what we make in a day or week simply because the have no other option but to pay what they demand.
Doctors would starve or be forced to charge reasonable rates for people if we banished health insurance. Doctors and hospitals pretty much charge as much as they can. Health Insurance companies don't mind paying it because they just collect more from those that are pretty much forced to buy their plans.
If everyone is forced to buy health insurance it will not provide health care for everyone, only greater wealth for the most greedy and already filthy rich. Everyone would just be charged more by these greedy health care providers and their lawyers, not to mention the health insurance companies.
Another way to do it is to require a doctor to service everyone that applies and be limited to what they can charge based on their income.
The answer is NOT more the SAME.
Best Regards,
Donovan
Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:
Are you advocating a system where we pay for medical care through taxes?
Because that's what is funding yours. That's not to say that retired
military men and women don't deserve it, just that it's not a system
that will work for everyone without a much larger tax commitment.
I think we need to find a way that involves bringing in actual market
forces. The prices are so high right now because there is no incentive
to shop around, and no incentive to cut costs. Obviously you have to
walk a fine line between cutting costs a reasonable amount and cutting
them too much (or cutting important things). What happened to the idea
that health insurance was to cover accidents or catastrophic situations?
Everyone seems to use it for everything under the sun. There needs to be
some incentive to reduce the amount of unnecessary usage of the system, too.
Of course, that's just my opinion - and I'm sure it's an unpopular one.
I'm one of those people that won't even take an aspirin unless I have a
headache that is bothering me enough that I can't concentrate or if I
think the pain is worse for my body chemically than the aspirin would
be. My philosophy about it is this: the body is a complicated system
that we still don't fully understand and that is different to some
degree for everybody - try not to micromanage it at the chemical level
if you can help it. I do understand that not everyone is lucky enough to
be able to avoid it. My mother was a life-long diabetic, and was
completely reliant upon the medical care system and they saved her life
many times over and made her everyday life more enjoyable. I just choose
not to partake of the system if I can avoid it. I wish some others
would, too.
I also think that over medicating can be dangerous. You have the obvious
problem of too many little side effects multiplying, and the problem of
unknown reactions between various medicines. On top of that, you end up
masking the underlying problems sometimes. For example, if you are
having a few bouts of insomnia, try not to grab for the sleeping pills
right away. Something is causing it, look for that first and see if you
can fix it. Try a few methods of beating it first that don't involve
exotic chemicals and long lists of rare side effects.
Paul
Tom Hansen wrote:
> The best health care program that I am aware of is the one to which I am a
> part of . . . Tri-Care.
>
> I pay no premiums. Yet, I have been a member since July of 1989. The
> most I have ever paid for a medical prescription is $9.00 (and that was
> only once).
>
> In June of 2006, my spouse was hospitalzed at Gritman (10 days in ICU and
> 14 days in CCU). The total bill came to over $45,000 of which I paid
> $1,200 out of pocket.
>
> A couple years before that I was hospitalized with a double hernia. The
> total bill on that came to approximately $12,000 of which I paid $600 out
> of pocket.
>
> Not only that, but after my spouse was discharged from Gritman, TriCare
> informed me that we had satisfied the "deductible" portion of our annual
> health care cycle. As such, subsequent prescriptions (through the
> remainder of the fiscal year) were FREE.
>
> "Where can I sign up for such a great health care program?" you ask.
>
> Quite simple, Arnold. It is a simple two-step process.
>
> 1) Enlist into military service.
>
> 2) Retire from military service.
>
> "Oh, no, Tom. I am too old to enlist," you say.
>
> No, you're not, Donnie-boy.
>
> Thanks to the Department of Defense lowering the standards for entry into
> military service, coupled with an extended 20-year retirement age (from 55
> to 62), you can sign up Monday.
>
> I'll be going over to the mall later today, Donnie-boy. Should I stop by
> the recruiter's office and have them pencil yo uin for 9:00 Monday?
>
> Tom-Tom Handson
> Moscow, Idaho
>
>
>
>
>> Keely,
>>
>> I don't need to see the impacts of not having insurance, I experience
>>
> it. I don't need a
> government study to tell me that not having medical care causes poor
> health. That is a no
> brainer.
>
>>
>> What we need are either no government subsidies for doctors and
>>
> hospitals that charge
> $300 an hour, or we need tighter regulation of how much a doctor can
> charge when he/she is
> working in a tax supported building who got their degree on a tax
> supported education.
>
>>
>> No reasonable person honestly thinks he or she is worth $300 an hour.
>>
> That is
> ridiculous. Nobody can afford that unless you are rich.
>
>>
>> Health insurance companies discriminate extensively, limit coverage
>>
> more extensively,
> and charge far more than the below average income person can afford.
>
>>
>> The other problem with health insurance companies is that they charge
>>
> monthly, and poor
> people cannot always afford to pay each month.
>
>>
>> But I say, what is the point of getting insurance, it doesn't cover
>>
> anything most people
> need. I just cannot get health insurance for anything I really need.
>
>>
>> We would be better off banning health insurance for everyone, then
>>
> trying to get
> everyone to have it. Then Doctors and Hospitals would be forced to charge
> reasonable rates
> that an open and free market could afford, or have zero clients trying to
> charge $6000 a
> visit. It is only because the government has legalized exploitation of the
> people that
> Hospitals and Doctors can exploit people that are sick, injured, or in
> need or care. And I
> won't even get into the Health Insurance Companies, or the pharmaceutical
> companies that
> seem to invent illnesses to sell their legalized drug pushing.
>
>>
>> Now what they do is charge is $4000 an hour and come down on the price
>>
> for those that
> have health insurance, even less is they have medicaid or medicare.
>
>>
>> Hospitals destroy poor people everyday financially because those
>>
> without health
> insurance cannot afford the higher rates that Hospitals and Doctors charge
> people that
> cannot afford health coverage. I think it highly immoral to charge the
> poor that cannot
> afford health insurance a higher rate than then wealthier people that can
> afford health
> insurance for the EXACT same service. And I cannot see why Liberals in
> Moscow support that
> policy, that even Gritman holds.
>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Donovan
>>
>>
>>
>> keely emerinemix wrote:
>> .hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage {
>>
> FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
> FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma } Goodness, "Donovan," you sound more and more like
> a Courtney-ite
> Libertarian every day.
>
>> I'm sorry that you fail to see that while all of us die, the poor among
>>
> us die earlier of
> things that generally don't kill the rich among us. I don't know what's
> more pitiful --
> that you can't see that, or that you don't give a damn.
>
>> Keely
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 20:05:07 -0700
>> From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
>> To: nickgier at adelphia.net; vision2020 at moscow.com
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Uninsured adults 25 percent more likely to die
>>
>> Interesting study because I always thought we all had an equal chance
>>
> of dying, 100%.
>
>>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Donovan
>>
>> nickgier at adelphia.net wrote:
>> Families USA Study Shows How Many Die Because They Lack Health
>>
> Insurance - 03/26/08,
> Workers Independent News
>
>> A first-ever report breaks down the death rate of the uninsured state-by-
>>
> state, and finds
> that the uninsured are more likely to die sooner than the insured. Jesse
> Russell reports:
>
>> Families USA has finished the first-ever study breaking down state by
>>
> state how many die
> every year due to a lack of health insurance. So far the organization has
> completed
> studies in 13 of the 50 states, and on Tuesday held a conference call
> regarding the
> results in Wisconsin. According to Families USA, 10.7 percent of those
> between the ages of
> 25 and 64 living in Wisconsin are uninsured and they estimate that
> approximately 250
> Wisconsinites died in 2006 due to being uninsured. Dr. Barbara Horner-
> Ibler, medical
> director at the Bread of Healing Clinic in Milwaukee said that it isn’t
> just a problem
> of the uninsured, but also of insurance holders with deductibles that are
> too high:
>
>> [Horner-Ibler]: "We also have the issue now of not just the uninsured,
>>
> but patients who
> have high deductible plans who are delaying care because they do not have
> access and the
> access that they do have is much too expensive for them to be able to
> afford on their
> budget."
>
>> According to the study, which covered 30 years of statistics, uninsured
>>
> adults are more
> than three times as likely to delay seeking medical care and are 25
> percent more likely to
> die prematurely than adults with health insurance.
>
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