[Vision2020] Food/gas prices

[Garrett Clevenger]

The point I'm trying to make is not embargo, but
people understanding where their money is going and
the repercussions of their buying habits.  You vote
with your money, choosing either wisely or
apathetically.

I agree with Roger, too, that the US needs to exert
it's pressure on China, that we do not find poisoned
products acceptable.  But that takes a lot of faith
that the Chinese will follow through.  Ironically, if
we inspected all the goods imported, they probably
wouldn't be as cheap because someone has to pay for
that.  Or will that be subsidized as well?


If you are wanting to buy biodiesel, the closest place
is Coleman down in Lewiston.  That's where we got
ours, though we ordered in bulk.  You can call to see
about just filling up your rig... 

Perhaps Busch Distrubutors would be able to help?  If
enough people requested biodiesel from them, they may
become a supplier...

gclev

--- Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
wrote:

> Roger,
>    
>   I think you are 100% correct here. What many far
> leftists don't understand is that embargoes didn't
> help the people in Cuba, or in Iraq, nor will they
> help the people of China. 
>    
>   I would love to find a company that had bio-diesel
> available. 
>    
>   Best Regards,
>    
>   Donovan
> 
> lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
>   There was a small biodiesiel operator in Genesee
> for about a year. He was using used vegetable oil.
> He has filed for bankruptcy. One was proposed at the
> port of Wilma. That plan has been withdrawn, but I
> think a different company is looking at it, I don't
> know where the closest plant in operation is. Biocke
> Bros. at Kendrick are working with Canola as an
> energy source.
> On trade with China I think it is a plus and
> hopefully will speed their attention to human
> rights. We should however, improve the inspection
> and regulation of incoming good to prevent the kind
> of problems that have ocured the last couple of
> years. 
> The embargo on Cuba has not improved any thing there
> and has probably made it worse. Trade has a better
> chance of working than embargoes. Keep the pressure
> on in regard to human right and inspections but
> still trade.
> Roger
> -----Original message-----
> From: Donovan Arnold donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 21:18:21 -0700
> To: Garrett Clevenger garrettmc at verizon.net, vision
> 2020 vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Food/gas prices
> 
> > Garrett,
> > 
> > I am afraid that I don't see economics the same
> way you do. 
> > I think Wal-Mart increases the quality of life for
> people in China, and here at home. I think the
> reason that so many Chinese people compete for jobs
> at factories that contract with Wal-Mart is because
> they are better than the other jobs in China.
> > 
> > A factory worker in China lives higher on the
> economic scale in his country than I do in mine. A
> factory workers in China gets $300-$400 a month,
> plus there housing and medical care are provided.
> $300 in China, will buy a lot more than it will
> here. Add to this fact that they don't own
> automobiles, and your life is comparatively better
> than the average Chinese person. 
> > 
> > A good reason why China has such poor human
> conditions has to do more with their overpopulation
> and lack of resources to provide for them all than
> it has to do with willful human rights and
> environmental abuses. 
> > 
> > The United States had just as bad of a human
> rights record just as little as a 100 years when we
> were in our industrialization age. We had children
> working in coal mines. We had women working in
> inhuman and unsafe working conditions. We denied
> people jobs on the basis of gender, age, disability,
> race, and religion. We are only better because we
> grew wealthy and were able to slowly change the
> working conditions one issue at a time.
> > 
> > I think China will eventually get there. But if we
> all stop buying from them, they will take longer to
> get there. It costs money to update and make all
> factories safer for workers, the only way they get
> that money is through the labor of its workers and
> landing big US contracts. 
> > 
> > I believe, if you wanted to help the US workforce,
> both in wages, and working conditions, you would
> start by shutting down companies that employ illegal
> immigrants. We need to lead by changing our own
> working conditions first. 
> > 
> > The reason why oil prices are high is because
> environmentalism will not allow us to drill here at
> home. If we could drill off our own shores, maybe
> drill for oil in Mexico and provide jobs there, we
> could drive down prices. I think we should also look
> to the long term and start finding alternative
> sources of energy, in a very serious way.
> > 
> > 
> > On a side note, can you tell me where the closest
> biodiesiel refinery plants are located? Thanks.
> > 
> > 
> > Best Regards,
> > 
> > Donovan 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Garrett Clevenger wrote:
> > Donovan writes:
> > 
> > "This is why you need a Wal-Mart Super Center in
> > Moscow, the competition keeps the prices low."
> > 
> > Donovan,
> > 
> > I wonder, do you not see the problem Wal-Mart
> poses to
> > not only our local economy, but of the
> unsustainable,
> > and exploitative, nature of Wal-Mart's leverage? 
> > 
> > I ask this because I assume you would have a
> problem
> > with the ethics of a company that seems to violate
> > moral reasoning, such as exploitation of workers
> in
> > China who, no matter how deserving of earning
> money to
> > live, are still treated as expendable. 
> > 
> > These Chinese companies Wal-Mart purchases from,
> on
> > top of competing with American companies, do not
> have
> > to follow the same environmental, labor or other
> > regulations that the US makes American companies
> > follow, so are thus at an unfair competitive
> advantage
> > as they dump their wastes into their rivers, and
> send
> > their pollutants into the air that the US Park
> Service
> > is now able to sample in our National Parks.
> > 
> > How many poisoned products do we have to import
> before
> > you say this isn't right? 
> > 
> > How many small businesses that go under because
> they
> > can't compete with the buying power of Wal-Mart do
> you
> > think is acceptable?
> > 
> > Will you recognize that Wal-Mart is a major
> instigator
> > of Chinese trade, and thus our trade deficit? That
> > the Wal-Mart/China relationship is a major factor
> in
> > the down-turn in the US economy? After all, it's
> > reported that China is holding $1.5 trillion of
> our
> > dept, a lot of it for the Iraq War, which has
> caused
> > oil prices to increase as you recognize. The
> hundreds
> > of billions of dollars Wal-Mart spends in China on
> > cheap goods is now being lent back to us to
> support
> > the war machine. Kind of ironic, I think.
> > 
> > It seems if we focused more on our local economy,
> and
> > limited the amount of foreign made products we
> could
> > be providing for ourselves, we would in the long
> run
> > be keeping prices low. After all, as fuel prices
> > continue to escalate, we are only going to find
> how
> > important it is to reduce transportation costs.
> What
> > better time to start that than now?
> > 
> > I believe in the long run Hawkins, and Super
> Wal-Mart,
> > will be more of an expensive burden on Moscow than
> if
> > we were to start using those resources to build
> our
> > local economy in a more sustainable way, rather
> than
> > subsidizing the wealth of China.
> > 
> > gclev
> > 
> >
>
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> 
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