[Vision2020] Of, By & For SOME of the pe

[Chasuk]

On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 10:55 PM, Donovan Arnold
<donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> My sympathy is with the victim, which is the US taxpayer having to deal with
> frivolous lawsuits for things that ultimately serve no purpose.

> The reason that other soldiers are allowed to meet with religious leaders
> isn't for a hobby. It is because at any moment they could be meeting their
> Maker. So they see a religious leader to prepare for that event, last rites
> and preparing for the end of this life.

Soldiers (military personnel in general) aren't "allowed" to meet with
religious leaders -- it's a right they exercise just like you do, no
strings attached.    There is no permission involved, which is what
you seem to be be implying.  If this isn't your implication, then nip
my missaprehension in the bud.

> It is not to have a community meeting, play golf, bingo, eat donuts and
> discuss the stupidity of those that think there is a super being floating on
> a cloud.

Some military attend worship services officiated by chaplains, some
attend "normal" services.  There isn't any rule.  Chaplains work
stateside and abroad, during war and during peace.  They do indeed get
involved in social activities with their congregation, including golf,
bingo, eating donuts, spaghetti feeds, and bible studies, where
atheism, agnosticism, pantheism, Buddhism, and all variety of belief
are discussed, much like in "normal" religious communities.

Most the time, military aren't actually in any more jeopardy of
meeting their maker than an average civilian.  But the chaplains don't
close up shop.  The still spread the gospel -- usually in a fairly
low-key, ecumical way -- and hosting bingo parties, donut and coffee
klatches, spaghetti feeds, and bible studies.

 Atheists don't need to make amends with God, because they don't
> believe in one.

Correct.  But their freedom to commingle still shouldn't be curtailed,
which is what the lawsuit was ultimately about.  Stop atheists from
commingling, and next they will stop Mormons, Seven Day Adventists,
Jehovah's Witnesses, and members of any minority belief system that
the status quo regard with suspicion or distaste.

As a non-theist, I know how comforting it can be to associate with
others of my kind, especially when struggling in a high stress
environment.  When I was sitting in Taif, Saudi Arabia, far from my
wife and children, uncertain when, or if, I would return, fellowship
would have been nice.

Did you know that there were many converts to Islam during Desert
Storm and Desert Shield?  A few of the converts were white, but most
were black.  Standing in line at the chow hall, waiting for my portion
of forbidden pork, suddenly the black airman who had eaten pork  on
Monday wasn't eating it on Tuesday.  Surreptitious prayer mats
appeared.  This was pre-9/11, but Islam was even then perceived with
alarm by many of the Christian community on Taif.  Still, atheists
were a lower species.

Some people are non-theists for the wrong reasons.  Some become
non-theists out of anger, out of petulance, or out of the desire to
shock.  Quite  a few, however, become non-theists after a long
struggle, and end up as non-theists as prisoners of their own
conscience.  These people don't adopt non-theism casually, any more
than most people would take on leprosy casually.

So the fellowship of one's peers is arguably doubly important to a
non-believer.  We are in a hostile environment regardless of our
physical location.   There is hyperbole involved here, but not much.

Three cheers to Spc. Jeremy Hall for standing up for me, and others
like me.  I count him as a "true" American, who understands what he
has sworn to protect from firsthand experience.

Chas