[Vision2020] Shoes thrown at President Bush

[Paul Rumelhart]

Do we have a mandate as a country to ensure that every nation has the 
right to democratically elect it's leaders?  Or just that ones that made 
death threats against the current President's daddy and that happens to 
have a lot of oil reserves?

I agree it's a worthy goal.  But we're being hypocritical if we ignore 
other nations and concentrate on just one of them.

Paul

Donovan Arnold wrote:
> Sunil,
>
> The United States, as any nation's people, should have the unalienable right to democratically elect its leaders and representatives without them being assaulted or harassed by the people of another country. What is the point of a democracy if the elected leaders are just harassed, assaulted, or killed while performing their duties?
>
> You always present yourself to me as someone that ignores what is morally and ethically important for the sake of whatever is expedient for your cause at the time. 
>
> You hate Bush, and as far as I can tell, and most of his policies, so you are shoving side a very basic and important right of people for the justification of attacking a man you dislike. No doubt your tune would change if it were a more serious assault against a leader you liked. 
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Donovan
>
>
>
>
> --- On Tue, 12/16/08, Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>   
>> From: Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Shoes thrown at President Bush
>> To: "vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 5:34 PM
>> Donovan,
>>
>> I don't give a rat's ass about this guy's
>> citizenship; now that's a red herring.  I can see that
>> he wasn't attacked by a foreigner, since it looks like
>> the guy was an Iraqi in his own country.
>>
>> I am perturbed that he was able to get the second shoe off,
>> and I don't recommend people throw shoes at presidents,
>> or most other people.  I also don't think they should be
>> killed for doing it.
>>
>> What I am least concerned about, and what I find
>> remarkable, is the notion that our sovereignty was
>> threatened.  When we start showing respect for the
>> sovereignty of other states, I may come to see our own
>> sovereignty has a delicate flower in need of protection. 
>> You can keep repeating your concern, and I'll still find
>> it either meaningless or ludicrous. Important issue my foot.
>>  That guy wasn't making a statement about sovereignty,
>> he was illustrating his view of Bush.
>>
>> Worrying that our sovereignty was somehow threatened
>> strikes me like worrying about Rush Limbaugh's ego
>> should he hear a criticism of his views.
>>
>> As far as tempting us, apparently they did that by having
>> oil under their ground.  
>>
>> Sunil
>>
>> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 13:01:52 -0800
>> From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
>> To: vision2020 at moscow.com; tiedye at turbonet.com
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Shoes thrown at President Bush
>>
>> Dave and Sunil,
>>  
>> What is clear is that you are not bothered by an attempt to
>> assault the President of the United States by someone that
>> is not a US Citizen.
>>  
>> It doesn't matter if the US President is assaulted by a
>> foreigner on his soil or ours. It is still an attack on US
>> Sovereignty. That is the point. If you missed that, I will
>> repeat it; It doesn't matter if the US President is
>> assaulted by a foreigner on his soil or ours. Is is still an
>> attack on US Sovereignty.
>>  
>> I think focusing on the fact that the US base was in Iraq,
>> is a big smelly red herring intentionally thrown into to the
>> argument to avert away from the important issue of US
>> security and sovereignty, which is what is being challenged.
>>
>>  
>> And yes, Sunil, Middle Eastern nations do need to be
>> careful about how they behave because the US has no qualms
>> about blowing people up or invading nations. It is idiotic
>> for a people to tempt and taunt those with the biggest
>> weapons that are also willing to use them.  
>>  
>> Best Regards,
>>  
>> Donovan
>>
>> --- On Tue, 12/16/08, Dave <tiedye at turbonet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> From: Dave <tiedye at turbonet.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Shoes thrown at President Bush
>> To: "vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 8:14 AM
>>
>> Donovan Arnold wrote:
>>     
>>> I meant, Sunil, that the guy who attacked the US
>>>       
>> President was not a US
>> Citizen. I guess you can play semantics if you want, but I
>> think my meaning was
>> clear. 
>>     
>>>   
>>>       
>> Quite clear: you think that the USA owns the world.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Windows, OSX, or Linux is the same choice as:
>> McDonalds, Burger King, or a (real) Co-Op.
>>
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