[Vision2020] being fair and even

[Tom Hansen]

Roger -

It is not so much what "they" would do, as much as it is what our allies 
(what few there are) would consider us to be.

We, the United States, once held the moral high ground.  Nations around 
the world respected us, not for our military threat capabilities, but for 
our words and deeds.  Nations eagerly supported us because we, as I had 
learned in twenty years of military service, led by example.

We said what we meant and we meant what we said.  We walked the walk.  
Enforcing standards of duty, responsibility, and (above all else) 
accountability was the yardstick we applied both at home and abroad.  We 
placed diplomacy ahead of military response.

Recently, the Department of Defense and Congress have attempted to regain 
a small portion of that moral high ground that the current administration 
has forsaken.  The Department of Defense defined acceptable human 
intelligence gathering techniques and delineated methods of unacceptable 
torture.  The Army accepted DoD's and established its own policies 
(policies adopted by Congress) concerning these definitions and 
unacceptable torture practices and published them in FM 2-22.3 (Human 
Intelligence Collector Operations), a manual I have posted to the Viz on 
three prior occasions.  This manual specifically identifies waterboarding 
as an unacceptable torture practice.

If you cannot accept the letter of this policy, perhaps you can understand 
its spirit.

Seeya at Farmers' Market, Moscow.

Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho


> On waerboarding
> It should not be used as a routine interrogation procedure. In extreme 
case in order to
save lives it could be used as a last resort. One of the 9/11 terrorists 
would not talk.
When he was waterboarded, he sang. I think it was justified in this case. 
If that is the
only way to obtain information that may save lives, it is justified. I 
would have an
extremely guilty conscience  if I did not use it and that omission 
resulted in multiply
deaths. These are people who would behead you given the opportunity. If 
you would not use
it in any case, I would question your priorities. You are not on the moral 
high ground
here.
> Roger
> -----Original message-----
> From: Sunil Ramalingam sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:16:56 -0700
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] being fair and even
> 
> > 
> > What else ould he mean?
> > 
> > Maybe he's talking about our financial system.  Both parties are busy 
shoring up private
institutions with taxpayer money.
> > 
> > Do you think that's socialism or full-blown communism, or is it part 
of restructuring
the economy.
> > 
> > I think your conclusion is one of the last I would leap to without 
evidence.  I don't
know how you can simultaneously make that leap and still require more time 
on
waterboarding.
> > 
> > Sunil
> > 
> > > Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:53:07 -0700
> > > From: lfalen at turbonet.com
> > > To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] being fair and even
> > > 
> > > What else can he mean by completely restructuring the economy? Think 
about it.
> > > Roger
> > > -----Original message-----
> > > From: Sunil Ramalingam sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
> > > Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:44:06 -0700
> > > To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] being fair and even
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Roger,
> > > > 
> > > > Seems to me you're making an enormous and unfounded leap to say 
that Obama is
talking about 'full blown socialism if not communism.'  Without foundation 
for that claim
it's pretty ludicrous.
> > > > 
> > > > Sunil
> > > > 
> > > > > Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:28:22 -0700
> > > > > From: lfalen at turbonet.com
> > > > > To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > > > Subject: [Vision2020] being fair and even
> > > > > 
> > > > > Sue doesn't think I'e been fair and even in the ridicule or 
poking fun at
department. I think that Saundra's George Bush cartoon was a fair response 
to my kittens
joke. I will give her another one. The radio talk show hosts have been 
belittling Obama
for his " that is a higher pay grade than me" answer at the Saddleback 
Forum. I don't see
a problem with it. He could have been referring to God. Who knows? In any 
case why waste
time on it. There are more important thing to be worried about. For 
instance he said "It
will be necessary to restructure the entire american economy. That 
translates to full
blown socialism if not communism to me. That scares the hell out of me.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Roger
> > > > > 
> > > > > =======================================================
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> > > > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > 
> 
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> 


"We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students. The college 
students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."

- Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)


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