[Vision2020] What is Jeff talking about? (was something else)

[Joe Campbell]

Jeff,

I've been busy lately and unable to keep up with your posts. I've read them There is so 
much wrong with what you've written it is hard to get started.

First, let me point out that I've organized, as a board member of the MCA, a public forum 
with you as a speaker. No one in the GMA has ever organized a forum with me as a 
speaker -- least of all you. I’m not afraid of talking to you in a public forum.

But I don't want to focus on that. Instead, I want to point out one of your many fallacies.

You claim that the MCA is 'anti-growth' and mentioned a few cases. In reality, the GMA 
holds the extreme view.

My posts have tried to point out the contributions to growth that the MCA has supported 
-- contributions noted by BJ and Bruce. You ignore these. That doesn't mean that they 
aren't contributions to growth. The MCA is not anti-growth. This is a lie.

I believe that some, but not all, growth is good. As far as I can tell, you and the GMA 
believe that ALL growth is good. That is why you were able to come up with such a long
list to shove in our faces. But you hold the extreme view.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe there is some growth that the GMA doesn't like. Steed wants to 
find a home for pig farms. You’d like to put a Super Walmart on the east side of town
without first solving the west-east traffic-flow problems. I'm pressed to find an example 
of growth that the GMA does not like.

Here is the challenge to you, Jeff, and the GMA candidates. What would count as bad 
growth? How will you help Moscow from eventually looking like Las Vegas or smelling 
like Lewiston? I can’t see it, so I can’t vote that way.

Answer that question and I take the time to point out some of your other fallacies!

Best, Joe

PS Economics is not a SCIENCE like logic and math and physics are sciences. I’m teaching the Theory of Knowledge next semester. It is an undergraduate course but I beg that you take the class. I’ll even pay for it.

At 11:20 PM 10/25/2007, you wrote:
>Jeff,
>
>Labels like 'anti-growth' are gross over exaggerations yet even 
>below you continue to perpetuate this myth, just like other members 
>of the GMA. Nor do I see satisfactory responses to posts by BJ and 
>Bruce to your false charges. That was my point.
>
>I don't see that as being anti-intellectual. I'm just calling it as I see it.
>
>--
>Joe Campbell
>
>---- Jeff Harkins <jeffh at moscow.com> wrote:
>
>=============
>Joe, I do not appreciate my honesty being called into question simply
>because we disagree on selected issues.  It is a very disingenuous
>tactic that you and your political allies use to obfuscate the
>issues.  It is unbecoming of you and very "anti-intellectual".  I
>would have presumed that you would not resort to such
>behaviors.  Perhaps it is because you have nothing else to offer and
>can only resort to name calling.
>
>If you disagree with me, fine - state your case, I'll state mine -
>and we will move on.
>
>As to the topic we were engaged in, "No Joe", you appear to have a
>significantly different view about our local government.
>
>Let's take a close look at what the council has done (and not done) -
>here is a sampling:
>
>Remember the ice rink decisions - and the impact on the hundreds of
>ice rink users.
>
>Remember the posturing for "no development in the corridor"  - which
>has resulted in significant friction with our neighbors to the West.
>
>Remember the handling of the removal of Mr. Jon Wheaton from his 15
>years of volunteer service on Board of Adjustment.  Local government
>can certainly make changes in positions, but to "fire" a volunteer,
>just because he has a different opinion?
>
>Remember the WalMart and big retail store decisions.
>
>Remember all the rhetoric concerning the development of the 77 acre
>Thompson property - are you proud of how that was handled?
>
>Remember the 3rd Street decisions - and the fact that folks living on
>D St and 6th Street have been waiting for years for their quality of
>life to improve (and their traffic to abate some) - a clear example
>of protect the few and punish the many.
>
>Remember the New Cities Vision - thousands of tax dollars to obtain a
>recommendation that Moscow should have high rise apartments and
>condos in downtown - and oh, downtown visitors should also have an
>unobstructed view of the surrounding countryside.
>
>Remember the fight with the County over who should manage the impact
>zone and the City's position on that - a rather clear end run around
>state protocols.
>
>Remember the effort to bring firearm bans to Moscow - another effort
>to go around state protocols.
>
>Remember the handling of the trees around the Moscow Mall.
>
>Need I mention all the angst over selected religious organizations
>and their occupancy of downtown spaces.
>
>Remember the decisions about whether we could cooperate with Whitman
>County in sharing in development of shared government services
>(utilities, fire, security) in the corridor.
>
>Recall the decision on "living wages"?
>
>Granted, you will no doubt favor the actions that the council took on
>several of these issues (the issues are necessarily philosophical and
>ideological in tenor).  But the fact is that each of these decisions
>casts a cloud on some aspect of economic development.  If you are
>persuaded that their actions were appropriate, then you are espousing
>"anti-growth" and "anti-development" sentiments.  And contributing to
>the view that Moscow is "anti-business" and "anti-growth".
>
>
>At 07:55 AM 10/25/2007, you wrote:
> >The real question, Jeff, is now that BJ has responded to your
> >question will you
> >read it and take note of it or will you continue to spread the lie
> >of anti-growth
> >just to get some of your friends elected?
> >
> >I'm betting the latter!
> >
> >Best, Joe
> >
> >------------------------------
> >
> >Message: 5
> >Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 21:15:57 -0700
> >From: Jeff Harkins <jeffh at moscow.com>
> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] real economic development in Moscow
> >To: bjswan at moscow.com, vision2020 at moscow.com
> >Message-ID: <200710250416.l9P4GBfJ070204 at mail-gw.fsr.net>
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
> >
> >Perhaps Ms. Swanson would provide us with a list of the economic
> >development accomplishments of the current city government.
> >
> >
> >=======================================================
> >  List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >                http://www.fsr.net
> >           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >=======================================================