[Vision2020] [Spam] Re: [Bulk] Re: Amazonian Deforestation and GlobalWarming:Was:Ed theViking, Greenland, and Global Warming
lfalen
lfalen at turbonet.com
Sat Mar 31 14:29:42 PDT 2007
Thanks Paul. You are essentially right in that science should not be politicized. unfortunately it is by both sides. What Tony said is correct about a lot of public universities. I am sure the reverse is true about some private institutions. There is a lot of misinformation put out by both sides on global warming. The dissemination of the rain forrest is a problem, but I take issue with the inference that animal agriculture is a major problem world wide. Yes some problems do occur. There have been and continue to be problems with contamination from sewage lagoons. I think that science will work this out in time. There are many positives to livestock production aside from food. There is a lot of land that is not suited for cultivation, that can be used for grazing. There was overgrazing in the early 20th century, but the condition of the range has substantially improved since then. It is also better than when the early settlers moved west. There are account of how they went!
for days
on end without seeing any game. Now there is abundant game.
There are many byproducts produced by the manufacture of food from plant sources. These are used as feed for livestock. There would be a hugh disposal problem if they were not feed to livestock. It would be impractical to return all of this as organic matter back to the land. Just a few of thes products are: wheat millrun, distillers dried grains, brewery waste, cottonseed hulls, corn husks, reject product from canning factories of all plants, breakfast foods and Fret-O-Lays. This is only a small list of product that cannot be used by humans that are economically disposed of through livestock.
Roger
-----Original message-----
From: Paul Rumelhart godshatter at yahoo.com
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2007 11:22:59 -0700
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: [Spam] Re: [Vision2020] [Bulk] Re: Amazonian Deforestation and GlobalWarming:Was:Ed theViking, Greenland, and Global Warming
> I can't comment on how "left wing" universities are because I am
> apparently biased towards "liberal" thought and I work at a university.
> I can say that I despise the politicization of science. Global warming
> is a textbook example of this. Were it not for the pressures from the
> left to frame the argument in such a way that it supports environmental
> restraint *and* the pressures from Big Oil and other nominally
> conservative groups to deny Man's overall importance as a cause the
> scientific community would eventually hash all this out using the
> scientific method.
>
> If I had to describe the general tendencies of the many powerful groups
> in the US right now with one phrase, it would be "gaming the system".
> Gaming the Constitution, gaming the courts, gaming the media, and now
> gaming the scientific method. I have total faith that the scientists
> employing the scientific method in a truly free environment will
> eventually figure it out. I don't know how to set up such an
> environment, nor how to fend off the well-funded interests on both sides
> of the aisle. Any thoughts on that would be welcome.
>
> I do think that lowering our dependence on foreign oil and focusing on
> designing "greener" methods of power generation make sense whether or
> not humans are impacting global warming on a large or a small scale - or
> even whether or not global warming is even happening on more than just a
> short-term scale.
>
> Paul
>
> Tony wrote:
>
> > Ted makes an important point about the political pressures faced by
> > scientists in an academic environment which encourages if not enforces
> > conformity to conventional wisdom. The resulting group think is
> > hardly conducive to flushing out truth from prejudice and presumption.
> > In such an environment where one's doctoral thesis if it is to be
> > accepted, must tow the left wing, humanity is the root of all evil
> > paradigm, it is obvious how an aspiring scholar might be tempted to
> > slant her research to please those who hold her future in their hands.
> >
> > The university is alleged to be a place where a variety of views are
> > thoughtfully considered if not embraced.
> >
> > Would that it were so.
> >
> > -T
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > *From:* Ted Moffett <mailto:starbliss at gmail.com>
> > *To:* nickgier at adelphia.net <mailto:nickgier at adelphia.net>
> > *Cc:* vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > *Sent:* Thursday, March 29, 2007 2:16 PM
> > *Subject:* [Vision2020] Amazonian Deforestation and Global
> > Warming:Was:Ed theViking, Greenland, and Global Warming
> >
> >
> > Nick et. al.
> >
> > I'm not sure you should defer to my research on methane and other
> > global warming impacts of livestock, given the complexity and room
> > for error on such a difficult subject. But this interesting
> > analysis that can be read in pdf form at the web link below, that
> > in part examines cattle raising impacts on the Amazon rain forest,
> > might shed light on this issue.
> >
> > I cannot vouch for the correctness of the data and conclusions
> > from this study presented in 1996, especially given the rapid rate
> > of change in that area of the world, indeed, all over our planet.
> > However, this paper reveals the daunting complexity
> > of environmental studies, while demonstrating the exacting and
> > sobering work that constitutes the day to day efforts of most
> > scientists, who usually don't have the inclination to politicise
> > their work, despite the claims of many that the hundreds of
> > scientists gathering data on global warming have an agenda to
> > slant their conclusions towards alarmism on human induced global
> > warming.
> >
> > Given that scientists sometimes face political, career, or
> > economic pressures to slant their work, defending the independence
> > of the community of scientists to present their findings without
> > these pressures biasing their efforts, is fundamental if the
> > public is to be accurately informed of major scientific
> > developments that can significantly impact the world at large,
> > such as climate change from human activity.
> >
> > Recently on C-SPAN testimony of NASA climate scientist James
> > Hansen before the US Congress was presented. He mentioned that he
> > thought the censorship of his scientific conclusions regarding
> > human impacts on global warming, by the Bush administration, was
> > akin to the censorship of science in the former Soviet Union.
> >
> > http://philip.inpa.gov.br/publ_livres/Preprints/1996/REPLACE-FEM.pdf
> > <http://philip.inpa.gov.br/publ_livres/Preprints/1996/REPLACE-FEM.pdf>
> >
> > -----
> > Ted Moffett
> >
> > On 3/15/07, *nickgier at adelphia.net <mailto:nickgier at adelphia.net>*
> > <nickgier at adelphia.net <mailto:nickgier at adelphia.net>> wrote:
> >
> > Greetings:
> >
> > I've not seen this message in my in-box, so I'm sending it again.
> >
> > I just wanted to verify that my source on methane release from
> > livestock was from the UN's FAO report that Megan cited.
> >
> > However, I respect Ted's research and reasoning skills and I
> > would be happy to defer to his judgment on this issue since he
> > has done more research on this than anyone on this list.
> >
> > Thanks, Ted, for making it clear that raising beef cattle, no
> > matter how they fart, is a terribly inefficient and
> > enviornmentally disastrous way of getting the protein that we
> > need.
> >
> > Nick Gier
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > =======================================================
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > http://www.fsr.net
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > =======================================================
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >=======================================================
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > http://www.fsr.net
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >=======================================================
> >
>
>
>
More information about the Vision2020
mailing list