[Vision2020] Fantasy vs. Reality Fourth Installment

Fri Mar 9 16:15:28 PST 2007

Isn't that presupposing he EVER tells the truth?  In ANY medium or media?

J  :]

>From: "Bill London" <london at moscow.com>
>To: "keely emerinemix" <kjajmix1 at msn.com>, <heirdoug at netscape.net>,        
><sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>, <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fantasy vs. Reality Fourth Installment
>Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 15:51:43 -0800
>
>Keely, of course, says it all better than I....
>however, I do have one comment on this issue of imprecatory prayer.
>When Keely was debating Doug Wilson recently on KRFP, I called and asked
>specifically about Doug's use of imprecatory prayer.  He denied that he 
>ever
>prayed that people would suffer, as Job had suffered.
>His denial is very different from the more recent statements on his website
>quoted here earlier....
>I wonder which time he was telling the truth...BL
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "keely emerinemix" <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
>To: <heirdoug at netscape.net>; <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>;
><vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 1:46 PM
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fantasy vs. Reality Fourth Installment
>
>
> > Doug, why is it so important to you and yours to defend -- and to do so
> > pretty badly -- your duty to pray imprecatorily against others?
> >
> > I don't think I've ever read anything from you about the Christian's 
>duty
>to
> > advocate for and serve the poor.  You're remarkably silent on Christians
>and
> > their participation in and benefit from unjust systems of racism,
>classism,
> > and sexism.  You are downright reticent when it comes to the call to
>preach
> > the Gospel and you're virtually silent when it comes to denial of self 
>and
> > submitting yourself to those around you in humility and peace.  Nope, 
>you
> > seem consumed with a gospel that, in your hands, has as its hallmark
> > belligerence and mockery.  You're sharp as a tack on what most 
>Christians
> > would call matters of either little consequence or great potential for
> > unnecessary division.  I've never heard of anyone whose idea of
>proclaiming
> > Christ and his message was to badger people about their baptisms, insist
>on
> > vindictive and vicious prayer prerogatives, wax eloquent about mandatory
> > Psalm singing, crow about his  virility and potency, and generally make 
>a
> > mess of anything that even remotely points to a Gospel of 
>reconciliation.
> >
> > So, again -- why is imprecatory prayer so critical to your worldview?  
>In
> > your many years as a disciple of Jesus Christ, is this the nugget of
>wisdom
> > you've come away with?  I cannot imagine anyone defending a disciple's
> > imperative of imprecatory prayer, period, but to do so with the energy 
>and
> > passion you show is beyond perplexing.
> >
> > It says infinitely more about you than it does about Jesus . . .
> >
> > keely
> >
> >
> > From: heirdoug at netscape.net
> > To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com, vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Subject: [Vision2020]  Fantasy vs. Reality Fourth Installment
> > Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 15:01:21 -0500
> >
> > Sunil,
> >
> > Maybe we can agree that the word's of my Lord Jesus Christ might not be
> > a clear example of impacation because you might say that he was God and
> > we are not. His speaking through the Psalmist in Psalm 22 and Psalm 69
> > (in the first person) would be claimed by some as not His words alone.
> > The Lord Jesus taught and practiced unconditional love, but He also
> > imprecated the unbelieving cities of Capernaum, Chorazin and Bethsaida.
> > He said that they were under greater judgment than Tyre, Sidon or
> > Sodom! (See Matthew 11:20-24.)
> >
> > As far as other New Testament prayers and pronouncements:
> >
> > "If anyone does not love the Lord, let him be accursed" (1 Corinthians
> > 16:22)
> >
> > Galatians 1:8-9. "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach
> > a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally
> > condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is
> > preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be
> > eternally condemned!"
> >
> > And my favorite passage of all of the saints in the Church praying this
> > type of prayer we only have to look to the last book as published in
> > the Bible: "How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge the
> > inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?" (See Revelation 6:10.)
> >
> > There may be others; we are told in the NT to sing and pray from the
> > Psalms. I take this to mean that we should have an attitude of prayer
> > when we worship and sing from the psalms.
> >
> > I have tried to make this clear. I hope this helps
> >
> > lemeno, Doug!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -------
> >
> > Doug won't answer you because it would show Dog W to be the non-leader
> > he
> > is.
> >
> > NO! Those type of prayers are certainly not in the NT - in fact, as was
> > pointed out by someone earlier, Jesus specifically tells us to pray for
> > good
> > things for our enemies and to show them the kind of kindness we want to
> > be
> > shown.
> >
> > A lesson a non-ordained pastor knows little about.
> >
> > J :]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  >From: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> >  >To: Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >  >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fantasy vs. Reality Fourth Installment
> >  >Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 11:31:06 -0800
> >  >
> >  >Doug,
> >  >
> >  >Are imprecatory prayers encouraged in the New Testament?
> >  >
> >  >Sunil
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