[Vision2020] Study says Death Penalty IS a Deterent

[Joe Campbell]

No, Donovan. Your 'studies' do not prove anything other than the fact that once you kill someone, he/she can't kill again. I could have told you that. You don't need the studies to find that out.

Best, Joe

---- Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote: 

=============
Joe, you wrote:
   
  "This is the point. What evidence do you have that the "death penalty" 
produces the result you suggest, e.g., that it lowers the number of 
murders?"
   
  I produced three studies that it does. That is my evidence. Here is more evidence; do you wear your seat belt? If so, is it because death or dismemberment is a deterrent?
   
  "Haven't the number of murders gone up, or remained the same, since 
the death penalty was introduced?"

Isn't it possible for the death penalty to be rising for other reasons despite the positive effects of a deterrent? If I quit eating ice cream it might help my weight not go up, but if I continue to stuff my face with the same number of cheeseburgers it might still climb. Should I go back to eating the ice cream in hopes the weight declines? It wouldn't. There are obviously other reasons causing the number of murders to increase. My suggestion would be a large increase in population and a decrease in overall real wages per household. 
   
  I don't consider the United States as having a death penalty. It has something called random executions for political opportunists. In order for a death penalty to be effect as a deterrent, it would have to be implemented fairly, justly, evenly, quickly and with virtually no error. The United States cannot even get the correct person a good deal of the time and its judicial system is corrupted. 
   
  "What EVIDENCE does anyone have that suggests that the death penalty is a solution to the problem of murder in America?"
   
  I don't think anyone is suggesting that it is. It does however, deter people from killing people, nobody said it prevented or cured it. In order to prevent it you would have to do much more than just eliminate those that murdered. Death is a strong persuader for many people, but it does not persuade all. 
   
  Best,
   
  Donovan
   
   
   
  
Joe Campbell <joekc at adelphia.net> wrote:
  Donovan,

You write: "Joe, if you keep shooting rabbits that try to eat your carrots you will soon have a population of rabbits that don't eat your carrots, either by eventually shooting them all, or only leaving a population of rabbits that don't desire your carrots or have the restraint not to eat your carrots.
"The Death Penalty produces the same results in your human population. By shooting everyone that commits murder, you will seriously reduce the number of people in your population that commit murder by creating a population that either has no desire to murder or has the self restraint not to murder.--Which is a desired result."

This is the point. What evidence do you have that the "death penalty" produces the result you suggest, e.g., that it lowers the number of murders? Haven't the number of murders gone up, or remained the same, since the death penalty was introduced?

More to the point, your 'study' does not address this issue. The 'study' estimates the number of future murders that might be committed by individuals in prison and suggests that were those folks put to death those murders would not occur. This says nothing about the overall murder rate.

Furthermore, the 'study' says nothing about whether or not the death penalty deters murder, or even that it is an effective 'solution' to the problem. Consider the rabbit example again. It might make you feel good to keep shooting the rabbits but if they reproduce at a rate that is faster than the rate at which you are killing them, then this is not a solution to the problem.

What EVIDENCE does anyone have that suggests that the death penalty is a solution to the problem of murder in America? For all the tough talk, I haven't seen any real evidence to support the claim.

Best, Joe

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