[Vision2020] women in authority and leadership
Sue Hovey
suehovey at moscow.com
Sun Jul 22 20:19:40 PDT 2007
Donovan, you missed my point, but I won't try again.
Sue
----- Original Message -----
From: Donovan Arnold
To: Sue Hovey ; lfalen ; Matt Decker ; thansen at moscow.com ; vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2007 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] women in authority and leadership
I think we should only allow young and old women and flamboyant gay men to serve in combat against countries in the Middle East. That way when we kick their ass not only will the country lose the war, they will lose face amongst their neighbors getting demolished by a bunch of girls and queers. No leader of a radical Muslim nation would be able to withstand the political fallout of letting his army fall to little girls, pregnant women, grandmas, and sissy boys.
Best,
Donovan
Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com> wrote:
Well there has certainly been little disagreement among men that women are
supposed to serve....
Sue
----- Original Message -----
From: "lfalen"
To: "Matt Decker" ; ;
;
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] women in authority and leadership
>I agree with Matt, however there are plenty of things women can do to serve
>besides combat.
>
> Roger
> -----Original message-----
> From: "Matt Decker" mattd2107 at hotmail.com
> Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 20:52:24 -0700
> To: suehovey at moscow.com, thansen at moscow.com, vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] women in authority and leadership
>
>> Sue,
>>
>> It's nice to see someone besides us military boys talking about this. I
>> understand your concerns, which I'm sure do happen time to time. I doubt
>> though, that in the case of rape, it happens very often. Of course in
>> situations such as those women shouldn't be discharged. One must( I can't
>> state enough) realize that every time someone, women or men, leaves their
>> unit for whatever that be, drastically hurts the unit.
>>
>> Having a possibility for a women to be raped and having one if not two
>> people withdrawn from that unit only further makes me more confident
>> about
>> my opinion.What if one of those women are in a leadership role.Believe me
>> I've seen a women lietantant (spelling again) flown home from ship from
>> an
>> unwanted pregnancy. War is not about political correctness, but rather
>> lives. Women in the infantry will cause more causalities in my sexiest(
>> thanks Tom) opinion. So be it though. I've seen first hand what the
>> infantry
>> is about.
>>
>> Ive trained with Force Recon and the Navy seals. I've fast roped out of
>> helicopters with 80 pounds of gear. Ive hiked 50 miles up and down 7000
>> ft
>> mountains with 130 total pounds of gear in 6 days. I've seen what women
>> do
>> around marines or what spouses and husbands do away from each other for 6
>> months or a year. How some choose to whore themselves out.
>>
>> Sorry if I'm venting but I tired of how people read shit but don't live
>> it.
>> I have had 14 buddies that have served oversees in this stupid current
>> war.
>> I know as well as Tom knows that the military trains for any outcome. I
>> am
>> very aware that our military is more mobile than 20 years ago. However, I
>> am
>> quite sure all branches train for when your vehicle breaks down and you
>> have
>> to hike out. Just like they teach a desk jockey how to shoot a gun.
>>
>> Sue, I don't feel that most women can do infantry training. But, I don't
>> hold that against them. I am sure that some can. I am just uneasy about
>> all
>> the other stuff hidden behind closed doors, which can destroy morale and
>> end
>> up killing people.
>>
>>
>>
>> Again sorry if I vented it's nothing towards you, just something that I
>> needed to get off my chest, as well as everyone should know.
>>
>> Take care
>> matt
>>
>>
>> >From: "Sue Hovey"
>> >To: "Matt Decker" , ,
>> >
>> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] women in authority and leadership
>> >Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 22:56:28 -0700
>> >
>> >I really don't deny you make a point that needs to be considered. I
>> >think
>> >people who have experienced certain situations first hand, need to have
>> >their opinions thoughtfully considered. But in a discussion of
>> >pregnant
>> >female military and the causes for that condition, and then using that
>> >as a
>> >reason to exclude them from combat, one might liken some of it, maybe a
>> >lot of it, to putting a curfew on women because rapists prowl at night
>> >(see
>> >today's Doonsbury, too). And if there are some men who can't handle
>> >an
>> >infantry payload, no one has suggested this means all should be
>> >excluded.
>> >During Desert Storm, I resented the fact that we sent women to protect
>> >the
>> >interests of Saudia Arabia, and those women weren't even allowed to
>> >leave
>> >the military compound or drive a car into a town. And a number were
>> >killed
>> >in the bombing of their barracks.
>> >
>> >Something else we need to consider: Inasmuch as males must register for
>> >the draft at age 18, then why should females not also have to register?
>> >And
>> >when, and if, the draft is reauthorized then all young people would be
>> >eligible and expected to serve. But that doesn't touch on your issue,
>> >I
>> >know.
>> >
>> >Sue
>> >----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Decker"
>> >To: ;
>> >Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 10:45 PM
>> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] women in authority and leadership
>> >
>> >
>> >>For those of you that feel women should be put into combat situations,
>> >>mainly infantry orientated units let me give you my side. And please
>> >>withhold from calling me a sexist, if you must call me anything, call
>> >>me a
>> >>realist. These points below are the ONLY points I stand on and nothing
>> >>more.
>> >>
>> >>1. Most women can't handle a infantry payload. Some can and more power
>> >>to
>> >>them, but majority can't. Not saying that I'm basing my opinion on this
>> >>principle, but it does serve an ideal. EX. When I was in, we had many
>> >>ops/humps that consisted of a 20+ mile hike/hump with a 40+ pound pack
>> >>on
>> >>our backs, not including the weapons and gear, another 30 pounds. Many
>> >>of
>> >>men didn't make it. Dehydration, broken bones, etc. One mission was a
>> >>one
>> >>week operation with vector packs. We did this mission for future
>> >>potential
>> >>Korea conflicts. In other words mountianous area of 7000 ft plus. Our
>> >>packs
>> >>had 100 pounds not including the 30 ponds of water, ammo, and other
>> >>such
>> >>items. Like I said If a women can do this more power to her.
>> >>
>> >>This is the weakest points of my arguement
>> >>
>> >>2. There was a common phrase in the marines, more like a joke, in which
>> >>I
>> >>saw true too many times.When is the only time you see a WM(women
>> >>Marine)
>> >>not
>> >>pregnant,,,,,,,,,,,, in boot camp(being that Marines males and females
>> >>are
>> >>seperated during that phase). In a infantry unit 40-45 men will go into
>> >>combat. Each time someone falls out of position or has a medical
>> >>problem,
>> >>another has to either fill that spot or most likely create a void.
>> >>Taking
>> >>away from the unit. This can greatly increase the chance that another
>> >>unit
>> >>unit member will get injured or killed.
>> >>
>> >>Let's say that a unit consists of 45 people 35 of those are male, I
>> >>will
>> >>promise you that 6 of those will be pregnant within six months. With a
>> >>bunch
>> >>of horny males jerking off too sears catalogs, what else would you
>> >>suspect.
>> >>This loss ONLY hurts the whole unit, taking away from the time the
>> >>military
>> >>has put forth in training these fine women. I don't know about all of
>> >>you,
>> >>but if I'm going to combat I would rather have a full force than one
>> >>that
>> >>has been depleted due to a curable cause.
>> >>
>> >>3. Fratinization (spelling, Yup I know I will never win a spelling bee
>> >>but
>> >>what the hell), has destroyed units. I have seen way too many times
>> >>women
>> >>humping upper ranks to get their goals met, what ever that be. Meaning
>> >>that
>> >>someone, yet again has to fill a void of a now vacant spot. Whether
>> >>that
>> >>be
>> >>the first person through the door or a tow gunner, since now they are a
>> >>desk
>> >>jockey. Believe it or not people this happens everyday. There is no
>> >>need
>> >>for
>> >>it in a combat situation. This only causes animosity throughout the
>> >>whole
>> >>unit, which I might remind you is one of the goals,the unit.
>> >>
>> >>4. Of course there are other items such as women serving in a infantry
>> >>situation, in a middle east area. Or the possible outcome of beheaded
>> >>women
>> >>displayed all over the news.
>> >>
>> >>These items are dear to me. Only because Ive seen some of them too
>> >>often.
>> >>I've never been in combat, and commend those that have sacrificed,
>> >>Women
>> >>and
>> >>Men. I just don't feel women should ever serve in an infantry unit
>> >>period.
>> >>Not because of the physical part, but what happens to units and how
>> >>much
>> >>it
>> >>can do to that unit.
>> >>
>> >>If and only if these items can be fixed, then will I feel in full
>> >>confidence, that women should be in INFANTRY organizations.
>> >>
>> >>Oh yeah and before anyone asks "why is it that other noncombatant units
>> >>due
>> >>fine with women, so why can't infantry deal with it" approach. let me
>> >>just
>> >>remind you that infantry units deal mostly with numbers. Don't believe
>> >>me
>> >>check out WW2, korea, Vietnam, First gulf war, and the one now.
>> >>
>> >>Take care
>> >>
>> >>Matt
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>From: "Tom Hansen"
>> >>>To:
>> >>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] women in authority and leadership
>> >>>Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 19:07:16 -0700
>> >>>
>> >>>For those of you who do not believe women should be permitted in
>> >>>uniform,
>> >>>let alone in combat, I commend to you:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>"Band of Sisters" by Kirsten Holmstedt
>> >>>
>> >>>http://www.mil-mall.com/product902.html
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>It is an excellent read.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>Seeya round town, Moscow.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>Tom Hansen
>> >>>
>> >>>Moscow, Idaho
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>=======================================================
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>> >>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >>>=======================================================
>> >>
>> >>_________________________________________________________________
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>> >>
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>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>--
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>> >>Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.8/904 - Release Date:
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>> >>5:42 PM
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary!
>> http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_hotmailtextlink2
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
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