[Vision2020] campaign contributions

[Donovan Arnold]

Joe,
   
  I certainly know what it is like to try and live on $8K a year. Your mother was a brave woman, no doubt.
   
  I am also glad you realize that a college education or vocational training is more important and less obtainable than it was when you were working toward your PhD. 
   
  I don't know if Dr. Weitz if suing MSD for the reason of sour grapes. That is what I heard from the MSD supporters. I think suing on the merits that it is wrong to take money without due process of law was reason enough to sue. 
   
  I do think though that MSD is a big bully. It was to me as a student, and it is to me as an adult. I think a sizable number of teachers and administrators are grossly overpaid in comparison to what others make in Latah, can afford to pay, and the quality of work they produce. I also think that Latah is grossly overtaxed, overburdened by the state, local, and federal governments, and full of people trying to push their opinions and way of life on everyone else. 
   
  So as far as I am concerned, yes, somebody needs to stand up to them before they take away all our money, destroy the quality of life with unaffordable property taxes, and drive more of the students to non-public and home schools. 
   
  I say take a stand against them anytime, anyplace, and in any manner we can. I think that when they start being questioned, and people start taking a stand, that MSD will be forced to listen and to make changes. 
   
  I am for reducing the taxes for property owners, and I am for treating the students fairly and equally if they decide they want to do something with their life after graduating other than spending another 5 years at a university they will give all their earning to for the next 20 years. 
   
  Best,
   
  Donovan
   
  

Joe Campbell <joekc at adelphia.net> wrote:
  Donovan,

I'm much older than you think that I am. 

When I went to college at Rutgers University in-state tuition was about $500 a semester. I was not from the working class poor. I was from the non-working class poor, since my mother was unable to work and our family survived on the $8,000 per year child support provided by my father -- along with some additional funds from my sisters.

I admit that, were I in a similar situation in today's world, it is doubtful that I would make it to the level of PhD. That is a sad commentary on the current state of the American dream. As I said, I am and have been very lucky.

I agree that the Weitz vo-tech plan is a good one, a needed one. But what has that got to do with his lawsuit? Nothing! You -- and Weitz and the rest of his supporters -- are mixing apples and oranges.

The lawsuit is not the best way to get the Weitz plan going. It is much farther from becoming a reality than it was prior to the lawsuit for the simple reason that people do not respond well to blackmail-style pressure. 

Tell me, if someone sued you in an effort to get you to do something, no matter how noble it was, would it increase or decrease your chance of doing it?

Best, Joe

---- Donovan Arnold wrote: 

=============
Joe,

Yeap, that was my reply. And I find it humorous that you consider yourself from the working class poor. If you were able to pay for your college by working tables and mowing lawns you are far removed from the reality today that there is no way on earth working 40 hours a week in those jobs pays for a PhD today. 

If kids today want to pay for college they need to work 40 hours a week, be willing to go into debt $25,000, pay a 7% interest rate on the debt for 10-20 years, and have mom and dad pay sell a few organs, and that is just for the four year degree at a 3rd university like UI.

The kids today need high paying vocational training just to have 1/2 what it cost you to say, "Would you like fries with that?". Rising costs of education and lowered value of the real wage give most these kids almost no chance. 

You might consider someone trying to stop discrimination as just "sour grapes" but I call it a serious injustice. I think Dr. Weitz has every ethical right to try to get the MSD to stop discrimination, even if it means doing so with an indirect method. 

A high school diploma today is worthless, and there is NO WAY they can pay for college on the wages they can get with a simple high school diploma like they could when you went through. Cost of education is doubling every few years, while real wages are falling. I think the children of MSD deserve more, why don't you? 

Best,

Donovan 



Joe Campbell wrote:
Donovan,

This is your reply? You more or less admit that Weitz’s lawsuit is based on his own sour grapes and has nothing to do with the law. And you totally missed my refutation of your standard "You can't comment about X because your biased” line.

And you seem to know me about as well as Crabtree does -- which is to say not at all. For the record, I have worked in a chain factory, a toy factory, as a bus boy, a delivery person, a cashier in a liquor store, a salesman in a sports store, a construction worker, a car salesman, a waiter, in lawn care and maintenance, and an assortment of odd jobs to pay my way through school right on up through the level of PhD.

Currently, I am co-editor of the Topics in Contemporary Philosophy published by MIT Press, with our fourth volume just out and another three on the way. Check out this link:

http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/browse/default.asp?cid=81

I am also a co-director of the Inland Northwest Philosophy Conference, one of the top philosophy conferences in the country. We even won an award from the Moscow Chamber of Commerce for bring folks from all over the world to the Moscow/Pullman. I'll stop there but there is more I could mention -- teaching awards, publications, etc.

It is ironic that after living half my life below the poverty level and working my way up to my current level of success I have to listen to people like you treat me like a prima donna. But I love my job as a philosopher and teacher and I realize that I am a very lucky man!

Best, Joe

---- Donovan Arnold wrote: 

=============
Joe Campbell wrote:

"What exactly, Donovan, did you think that the MSD should have worked
out with Weitz? And for what reason?"

I think they should have worked out better funding of vocational education and to reduce discrimination against non-college bound students. And for the reason of being fair and ensuring that public education provides equal benefit to all students as well as providing the students with some job related skills so they can be gainfully employed when they graduate high school.

Joe also writes:

"I'll save you the trouble and state your reply: "Since you are a teacher, Joe, your opinion is prejudiced and doesn't count." Thank God the issue isn't whether or not oxygen is essential to life or else we'd all be unable to comment! "

You are incorrect here on three accounts. First, we all breath, so breathing would be an equal bias on all people, thus not making it a bias. Second, you would be the only person in education to state that being a teacher has not impacted their way of thinking. Third, and final, since you are philosophy teacher, you're biased in thinking that everyone can be a philosophy teacher rather than understanding standing some people want to be welders, carpenters, constructionists, nurses, drafters, operators, truckers, and machinists,--occupations that actually produce public wealth, not drain from it. 


Best,

Donovan


Joe Campbell wrote:
Donovan writes: "It is unfortunate that MSD was unwilling to work with Dr. Weitz before he had to take them to court. I would image that such a reason has less to do with integrity and more to do with the size of the gap differences in opinion."

What exactly, Donovan, did you think that the MSD should have worked out with Weitz? And for what reason?

The merit of Weitz’s lawsuit has not yet been decided. Even the decision by the Deputy Attorney General, which Weitz and others keep circulating, states that the law is ambiguous and subject to two distinct interpretations, one of which is consistent with the MSD's actions. There is absolutely no reason for the MSD to work out a deal with Weitz, either before the election, or at the current moment. To do so would have been, or would be, irresponsible. The problem lies with the law, not with the MSD -- and this is true even if Weitz wins since that decision would set the legal precedent.

I'll save you the trouble and state your reply: "Since you are a teacher, Joe, your opinion is prejudiced and doesn't count." 

Thank God the issue isn't whether or not oxygen is essential to life or else we'd all be unable to comment! 

--
Joe Campbell

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 22:28:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Donovan Arnold 
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] campaign contributions
To: Shirley Ringo , vision2020 at moscow.com
Message-ID: <981907.401.qm at web38112.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Shirley,

You are without a doubt the best current legislature from Latah, and certainly have the most integrity of the three. But I am unable to find any vote you cast since 1999 which was in opposition to the MSD or IEA agenda or stated positions. If such disagreements exist between you and MSD and the IEA as you stated, please be so kind as to point out a few for us.

I am glad you are able to work out differences with the MSD before taking them to court. It is unfortunate that MSD was unwilling to work with Dr. Weitz before he had to take them to court. I would image that such a reason has less to do with integrity and more to do with the size of the gap differences in opinion. 

Again, I would like to hear to what differences between the MSD and yourself that you have worked out on behave of the people you represent. 

Best,

Donovan



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