[Vision2020] God is who??(Was Quaran and the Bible)
keely emerinemix
kjajmix1 at msn.com
Sat Feb 24 10:35:42 PST 2007
Pat, I don't think the entire Muslim world is trying to pull an unholy
fleece over your eyes. The God worshipped by the religions of the Book --
Jews, Muslims, and Christians -- is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in
history.
It may be said that each faith believes something different about this God:
Jews believe that He has yet to send the Messiah, Christians believe He
exists in triune form (the trinity, or, loosely described, one What and
three Who), and Muslims believe that He counts His lineage from Ishmael, not
Isaac. Because Christians believe Jesus is God, the attributes and
character of God are then ascribed to Jesus, and one could probably say
without being too far off the mark that Jews and Christians believe in a God
more personally involved with His creation in a relationship sense. My
point is that the object of the faith is the same to each practitioner of
these faiths, but the characteristics make that One different to each.
A clumsy but maybe enlightening example: I might describe George W. Bush as
an opportunistic, intellectually dense, earnest and macho American male who
is currently our president. Someone else might describe him as a devout
Christian, a man of peace, a scholar of geopolitics, and a steadfast leader.
His college buddies might describe him as a hearty-partyer, a good ol'
boy, a fraternity president and a helluva cheerleader, and Laura might --
I'm straining on this one -- describe him as a loving, attentive, sensitive
husband and caring, involved father to their two girls. All are describing
George W. Bush, who exists in history and has revealed himself to people,
but who exists independently of our attempts to evaluate or analyze --
apprehend -- him. Some of these descriptions are more accurate than others,
but the adherents of each point of view are all describing GWB, even,
perhaps, in ways that make us eventually say, "Gee, George, it's like you're
a whole different person!!" and that also make us say, if someone were to
describe him as a dairyman and hemp farmer in Sultan, Washington, "Uhhh, no,
that's not the same guy." In other words, God is as He/She is, and some
perspectives are "wronger" than the others. (Yes, I said "She," because it
is incorrect to ascribe only male characteristics to the Divine).
Now, as a Christian, I believe that God is triune, that Jesus is the
Messiah, fully God and fully Man, and that He reigns as God since His
resurrection. And so I cannot simultaneously believe that God is NOT
triune, that Jesus is NOT divine, and that the Messiah is yet to come.
That's why I can't be a Christian and also then be a Muslim or a Jew. But
another thing I can't do is presume that I have all understanding, and that
God has not graciously revealed Himself to those who seek His kingdom, even
if they seek it with a roadmap I find inaccurate. And so I proclaim the
Triune God, seek to do God's will, and refuse to see attacks against my
faith in every point of dissent.
keely
From: "Sue Hovey" <suehovey at moscow.com>
To: "Pat Kraut" <pkraut at moscow.com>, "vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] The Qur'an and the Bible
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 08:13:25 -1000
Pat, I don't know where you got that information, but according to my bible
professors at Baylor University in the 1950s,and those folks who weren't
long on religious tolerance, Mohammad traced his lineage back to Abraham and
his worship of the same God the Jews worshipped before him. This is not some
new phenomenon, it was in the textbooks I used in college classes a long
time ago.
Sue
----- Original Message -----
From: Pat Kraut
To: vision2020
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] The Qur'an and the Bible
Muslims claim now in 2007 that they have the same god as the Jews or
Christians But they did not start out that way. It is a new claim to make
themselves more acceptable in current time and to add confusion to the
subject. Few Christian denominations agree with the idea however so they can
claim it but that does not make it true.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ellen Roskovich
To: nielsen at uidaho.edu ; Vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 8:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] The Qur'an and the Bible
Actually, I think it was back in October of last year, I remember Doug
Wilson telling everyone at the Sub that Christians and Muslims DO NOT
worship the "same" God.
It was news to me. Every Muslim I have ever known has always said the
same thing on the subject. . . "we worship the same God, the God of
Abraham." But, hey, according to Doug wilson, Jews have missed the boat as
well.
That was an interesting evening.
Ellen Roskovich
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Ralph Nielsen <nielsen at uidaho.edu>
To: Vision 2020 <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
Subject: [Vision2020] The Qur'an and the Bible
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 12:33:46 -0800
>Yes, Doug (Farris or Wilson), the Qur'an is very similar to the
>Bible. Don't Christians and Muslims say they both worship the same
God?
>
>"Blessed be the LORD my rock, who trains my hands for war, and my
>fingers for battle" (Psalm 144:1).
>
>"Thus says the LORD: I am coming against you, and will draw my sword
>out of its sheath, and will cut off from you both righteous and
>wicked" (Ezekiel 21:3b).
>
>"And the LORD changed his mind about the disaster that he planned to
>bring on his people" (Exodus 32:14).
>
>"I, I am the LORD, and besides me there is no savior" (Isaiah
43:11).
>
>And so on...
>
>Ralph
>
>Heirdoug wrote:
>
>I just love this line "the enemy is the violence they exalt." Like
>their sharia law and the last thing that was said in the Koran was
not
>the important point... "death to the infidel"!
>
> From one of Doug Wilson's sermons: "The Koran is not organized
>chronologically, but rather the same way the letters of Paul are
>organized in the New Testament--by length. This leads many people to
>think that "peace" verses in the Koran and "war" verses are all
jumbled
>together, to be sorted out as the occasion demands. But the peace
>verses were from the first Meccan period, and they were abrogated by
>the jihad verses that began in Medina. "If we abrogate a verse or
cause
>it to be forgotten, We will replace it with a better one or one
>similar" (Surah 2:106)."
>
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