[Vision2020] Godwin's Law Strikes Again!

g. crabtree jampot at adelphia.net
Thu Feb 8 18:42:19 PST 2007 

In answer to you respective, probing questions...

 "Do you think Richard made a forgivable mistake?"

Perhaps, but it would surely not be up to me to decide or grant the 
forgiveness.

 "Is there something there that he needs to remediate within himself?"

I am inclined to say no but, then again, who am I to make any kind of 
judgment? Only Richards can know what goes on "within himself." How I feel 
(or more correctly don't feel) personally about the incident matters not one 
bit.

I hope this clears up any lingering mysteries, now if you'll excuse me I've 
got a "support group" meeting to get back to. As you might well imagine the 
guys get quite testy when I hold things up.

g

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "david sarff" <davesway at hotmail.com>
To: <jampot at adelphia.net>; <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Godwin's Law Strikes Again!


>
>>Hi Gary,
> It seems to me there is a difference between cultivating hate and 
> expressing situational anger. Cultivating kindness, a higher order art. In 
> my opinion a better route to an improved humanity. Not easy for a lot of 
> us.
> I don't see you as a hate cultivator, in fact it seems you might even be 
> trying to make efforts against it in concentrated areas.
> In this situation and others similar to it, I think you miss-measured 
> Sue's reaction. It was situational in reaction to a clear practitioner of 
> hate cultivation. Can she do better, you bet. Your knowing that, taking 
> the grain of truth in her grain of fault and hyper-inflating it, is a 
> bully's support group method. This technique is not a strength for 
> anybody.
> I agree with Sunil's response, but in light of your effort here, wonder if 
> you might be amenable to exploring your examples a bit.
> Recently, comedian Michael Richards made a lot of trouble for himself 
> using the N word. I suspect you are familiar with that news line. Do you 
> think Richard made a forgivable mistake? Is there something there that he 
> needs to remediate within himself?
> Dave
>
>
>>Gary,
>>
>>So if an African-American killed the same person in the manner you 
>>describe,
>>the statement "That miserable nigger just cut the head off of a American
>>non-combatant," would not be racist?
>>
>>You're right, I don't like or agree with your rationale.
>>
>>I think it's a mistake to link emotion with the use of racist language or
>>attitudes.  Racist decisions and statements are easily made in the absence
>>of emotion; I think they're the results of attitudes developed over a
>>lifetime and ingrained in cultures and individual people.  I don't think 
>>any
>>particular 'race' or group has a monopoly on racism.  I know I've often
>>heard racist statements expresses as casually as a request for a drink of
>>water.  There's no requirement for actions as you suggest; statements
>>express one's views quite effectively.
>>
>>Sunil
>>
>>
>> >From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
>> >To: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
>> >CC: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Godwin's Law Strikes Again!
>> >Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 07:12:39 -0800
>> >
>> >Well Sunil, since you insist on trying to chase me out onto a thin limb,
>> >I'll give you my take on comments such as the one you refer to. You 
>> >won't
>> >like or agree with it, I suspect, but here goes. Please bare in mind 
>> >that
>>I
>> >speak for myself and not anyone else to who you might attribute a lack 
>> >of
>> >sensitivity.
>> >
>> >When someone makes a remark like "All ragheads are vermin and have no
>>right
>> >to live" it is inexcusably racist and deserves to be denounced at every
>> >possible turn.
>> >
>> >When someone says "That miserable raghead just cut the head off of a
>> >American non-combatant," it is a minor lapse of manner(s) or tact.
>> >Unfortunate but, forgivable. Not, in my opinion, an indication of racism
>> >per se.
>> >
>> >In the first you are calmly stating your contemptible and unsupportable
>> >opinion of a large group/race of people. In the second you are 
>> >expressing
>> >your anger and frustration at an individual or small group of proven 
>> >evil
>> >doers with language that is intemperate and poorly chosen.
>> >
>> >Racism is, in my opinion, demonstrated by actions. It is hinted at,
>> >sometimes incorrectly, by individual words.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >I hope that this does not change your opinion of my fitness as company 
>> >on
>> >the list.
>> >
>> >g
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
>> >Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> >Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 9:31 PM
>> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Godwin's Law Strikes Again!
>> >
>> >
>> > > Gary,
>> > >
>> > > Are racist slurs minor lapses of manner or tact?
>> > >
>> > > I hope this question isn't considered trash talk, or 'self righteous,
>> >self
>> > > satisfied, school yard sputtering,' though you may well consider me 
>> > > an
>> > > additional player; happy to have you as company on that list.
>> > >
>> > > Sunil
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >>From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
>> > >>To: <debismith at moscow.com>, <suehovey at moscow.com>,
>> ><vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> > >>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> > >>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Godwin's Law Strikes Again!
>> > >>Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 20:07:27 -0800
>> > >>
>> > >>Extremely interesting. Should someone from the mildly conservative
>>side
>> >of
>> > >>the fence have a minor lapse of manners or tact, the squealing and
>> > >>castigation rises to a level at which our canine friends experience
>> > >>profound and lasting aural pain.
>> > >>
>> > >>But on the other hand it's OK to demean the offender with a level of
>> > >>calumny several orders of magnitude greater then anything originally
>> >said.
>> > >>I mean really, when you feel you have to resort to not so subtly
>>calling
>> > >>someone's mother a bitch along with the silly BS in the post to which
>> >I'm
>> > >>responding, you really have to wonder If Ms. Hovey, Ms. R-S, Mr. Fox,
>> >and
>> > >>the rest of the usual suspects have any sense of irony at all. Double
>> > >>standard risen to the power of hypocritical joke. What's even funnier
>>is
>> > >>that this communication will likely raise the trash talk to the next
>> >level
>> > >>as well as spread it to additional players. Who needs comedy central
>> >when
>> > >>we've got the V.
>> > >>
>> > >>Commence self righteous, self satisfied, school yard sputtering,
>> > >>g
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > =======================================================
>> > > List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> > >               http://www.fsr.net
>> > >          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> > > =======================================================
>> > >
>>
>>
>>=======================================================
>>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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>>=======================================================
>
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