[Vision2020] Craig's official statement
Sue Hovey
suehovey at moscow.com
Thu Aug 30 00:02:33 PDT 2007
Donovan:
Paragraph One: Good Point
Paragraph Two: Don't be so sure. We now have a gay legislator--people do change their views with time.
Paragraph Three: Not being a man, I can't speak to that, but I do remember something Woody Allen said which sort of speaks to it: "Being bisexual immediately doubles ones chances for a date on Saturday night."
Best,
Sue
----- Original Message -----
From: Donovan Arnold
To: Scott Dredge ; viz
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 8:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Craig's official statement
It sounds to me like Larry Craig is screwed either way. If he was honest about his sexual desires for other men he would never have been allowed to serve in public office in Idaho. On the other hand, when he tries to down play his personal behavior, that results in him being called a hypocrite and may end his career.
People in Idaho will not elect a homosexual for US Senate. I don't even think an openly homosexual man could get elected to the Moscow City Council, much less by the entire state of Idaho.
I also believe it is possible for men to have sexual relations with other men from time to time and still not believe that homosexuality is a morally acceptable behavior, or that it is on par with a relationship with a woman in marriage.
Best,
Donovan
Scott Dredge <sdredge at yahoo.com> wrote:
Even if he wasn't innocent, I think he could have beaten the rap. Ben Stiller was caught in a much more embarrassing situation at a rest stop in the movie "There's something about Mary" and he claimed that he was just taking a leak, which in fact, exactly what his intentions were. Now the all the other gentlemen who were clearly engaging in lewd conduct also claimed the same defense, but I think Stiller's character still managed to skate free. Then again, he was riding with some mass murderer so that may have had something to do with the lewd conduct charges being dropped because the police now had a bigger fish to fry.
In any event, on to your question about hypocrisy. The answer is yes. If you are representing some 'stick up the rear end' fundamentally conservative constituency that would be aghast if you had a foot fetish or liked to be spanked or something else, you would need to be very discreet such that they and members of your church would not find out. And if something happened where you were caught, you would need to first deny, deny, deny, and then when that doesn't work you would need to come up with some plausible explanation such as "Well I may have engaged in inappropriate conduct, but I can promise you all that I didn't enjoy it in the least". And then maybe the whole situation would blow over. Hypocrisy, yes. but it's kind of a forced hypocrisy isn't it?
-Scott
----- Original Message ----
From: Paul Rumelhart
To: Scott Dredge
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 6:45:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Craig's official statement
Hey, I don't have anything to prove here. I was just stating that,
based upon what I had heard at the time, it sounded possible that he
might have been innocent of the charges despite what he said in court.
Not that he *was* innocent, not that I wanted him to be innocent, not
that I even give a flying fsck whether he was innocent or not. That was
based upon a story that detailed the crimes of touching another mans
foot in the stall next to you and reaching under the partition.
What a truly horrific thing for me to say. I should be ashamed of myself.
At the time, I hadn't read the NY Times article that Tom posted. The
standing outside the restroom door for two minutes looking through the
crack thing falls neatly into the category of "odd behavior".
So, ok, maybe he is a hypocrite. So here is another thought that will
probably get me reviled as Satan's second cousin or something, but how
do you avoid be hypocritical on some subjects when you are ostensibly
representing your constituents? What do you do if you are inwardly
pro-homosexual, but your constituency isn't? Were you elected to vote
as you wish? Or were you elected to vote as your constituency wishes?
If he's a hypocrite, he became one the day he courted the electorate
that differed from his own personal views.
Paul
Scott Dredge wrote:
> Oh give it up, Paul and Roger. Are you guys not paying attention? You can find Larry Craig's hypocrisy just about everywhere. Did you not see his press conference today? The first sentence out of his mouth was, "Thank you all very much for 'coming out' today" as if all the reporters and everyone else in the audience had some closeted secret that had come to light and they were owning up to it unlike himself. Criminy! If that ain't hypocrisy, I guess I don't know what hypocrisy is. Of course, maybe I don't know. Hmmm...let me think about that a bit...
>
> -Scott
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: lfalen
> To: Paul Rumelhart ; Joe Campbell
> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:55:29 AM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Craig's official statement
>
> My sentiments also. I don't know where Craig stands on sexuality. Joe. maybe you could let us know were the hypocrisy is?
> -----Original message-----
> From: Paul Rumelhart godshatter at yahoo.com
> Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 20:25:26 -0700
> To: Joe Campbell joekc at adelphia.net
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Craig's official statement
>
>
>> Sure, be my guest.
>>
>> You're welcome.
>>
>> Is he actively anti-homosexual or something? Despite the fact that he
>> gave me a nomination to the Air Force Academy in 1984 (which turned me
>> down) I haven't really followed his career that much.
>>
>> I'm just saying that I'd hate to be in that situation and not actually
>> be guilty. Tapping your right foot. Who knew? I might also be tempted
>> to just pay the damn fine and hope nobody notices, too.
>>
>> I do know I plan to keep both feet solidly on the floor for the duration
>> next time I'm in an airport restroom.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> Joe Campbell wrote:
>>
>>> Paul,
>>>
>>> You're not really that naive, are you? How about hypocrisy? Can we accuse him of that?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Joe Campbell
>>>
>>> --------------------
>>>
>>> The article I read in the Washington Post said that he had tapped the
>>> foot of the person in the stall next him and reached under the
>>> partition. Naive to ways of the dance of restroom stall courtship and
>>> etiquette, I probably would have handed him some toilet paper blithely
>>> assuming that his dispenser was empty.
>>>
>>> I haven't yet read the articles linked to earlier - so it's possible it
>>> was more than that. But given what the Post said, I can't really accuse
>>> him of much myself.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
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