[Vision2020] Trinity Fest Protest.

[keely emerinemix]

And God-worshipers like me, Doug?  What do we fear when we criticize you and your leaders?By the way, I'm not qualified to determine what level of either reverence or disdain anyone has for God, and neither are you.  keely> Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 21:21:58 -0700> From: ophite at gmail.com> To: heirdoug at netscape.net> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Trinity Fest Protest.> > > That just about sums up what God haters like Andreas and Nick really> > fear.> >> > It's the freedom.> > Doug --> > Actually, spent some time ruminating today, and produced exactly that> answer. In your theology, one of the things I find objectionable (and> I find many things about it objectionable), is, in fact, the freedom.> Or, at the very least, it is the juxtaposition of absolute liberty> with absolute privation.> > The thing that strikes me most, when reading Wilson in particular, is> that he does not particularly fit the model of a theocrat; that is, he> is not grim, humorless, and dour (or, at least, he is not generally> so; I'll discuss that later). He's a quick read, and once you've> mastered the somewhat specialized vocabulary he uses, and not an> unpleasant. He actively promotes drinking, humor, the arts -- things> which other Christians, especially other *Calvinists*, explicitly> reject. You also won't find pious, whitebread "Christianized" versions> of secular entertainments: last year, I was treated to a passable> cover of "Sweet Home Alabama" sung by the man himself.> > He is not an ascetic, and explicitly denounces asceticism (of any> sort) as being "Gnostic." You will find no flagellants in his> congregation, and no teetotalers. I spent some time wandering around> Trinity Fest this year. It looked fun, especially when one compares it> to Gary North's economic apocalypse seminars or Joe Morecraft's fusty,> legalistic lecturing (you will find nothing more interesting on his> church calendar than a "World History Class," and sermons on "History> of the Reformation").> > You may want to stop reading here, as it is the last positive thing I> will be saying about DW for some time.> > Those freedoms are reserved only for the elect, and then only from the> upper classes of the elect. Some pretense is made at there being> reciprocal responsibilities between a man and his wife; a master and> his slave; a pastor and his church. Those responsibilities boil down,> effectively, to these two tenets: do not make their burden of your> lessers harder than it must be; keep them firmly in their place. Women> are responsible for cleaning, obedience, sex on demand; men, as their> reciprocal responsibility, must give orders and compliments. A slave> must work as hard as he can for his master; his master must merely> refrain from whipping him.> > There are differences in opinion over egalitarianism, both here and> elsewhere. My position is clear: I am an egalitarian, sexual and> otherwise. I don't mean to start that argument here. However, even by> the standard that people of different station should have different> rights and responsibilities, his failure to promote standards that are> even remotely reciprocal is truly remarkable. In ethical anarchy> Wilson proposes for those whose ordination is to lead, those who are> subject have absolute duties to other mortals, and those that are> ordained to be leaders are answerable only to God, who is expected,> one suspects, to manage the affairs of the Church by directly smiting> those leaders who stray.> > I'm reminded of something Chris Witmer posted some time ago:> > "If it was me, I probably wouldn't give them the time of day. If you> ask me (sorry, I know nobody asked me), it sounds like someone has> trouble distinguishing between presbyterianism (where the congregation> chooses their elders and then submits to them) and modern American> baptistic congregationalism (where the leaders have to keep on> answering to the electorate)."> > To me, some of the charges coming from the Reformed side of Doug's> critics -- hyperconservatives even amongst evangelical Christians --> sound esoteric. Sacerdotalism. Papism. Pastoral tyranny. Covering over> the criminal mistakes of other pastors (like R.C. Sproul's tax fraud.)> I haven't mentioned them because I'm only distantly interested in> issues of church governance. But they are merely the flip side of my> objections to his theology, from the liberal side: he believes that> the powerful -- men, slaveholders, whites -- are utterly> unaccountable, that they are ordained to be unaccountable, and that> the Enlightenment (and Civil War) somehow forced Satanic> accountability into places, like the marital home, the government, and> the Church, where it should never have gone.> > Well, Doug, we in the West had 1200 years of misery, death, ignorance> and tyranny under unaccountable leaders, unaccountable husbands, and> unaccountable white men with beards. We're sick of it now, thanks.> > -- ACS> > =======================================================>  List services made available by First Step Internet, >  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.   >                http://www.fsr.net                       >           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com> =======================================================
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