[Vision2020] water development

Sat Apr 14 16:01:11 PDT 2007

Sunil is referring to the study done by the Army Corps of Engineers 
sometime way back when that looked at the Palouse, Clearwater and 
Snake Rivers as possible water sources for Moscow. Even back then 
(1974 I think) the energy costs of pumping water uphill to Moscow 
were prohibitive. The only person I know who has an actual copy of 
the study is Joel Hamilton. There is likely one in the UI library.

m.

At 3:27 PM -0700 4/14/07, Donovan Arnold wrote:
>Sunil,
>
>You asked:
>"My limited reading on this issue suggests that at least in the last 100
>years or so, most large-scale water development depended heavily on funds
>provided by taxpayers. You have suggested, both recently and in the past,
>that we should try to get water from the Clearwater River, as the Moscow
>water is so poor. Wouldn't a project of this scale also require taxpayer
>funds, and not be provided by private enterprise? I believe Mark Solomon
>provided some information on this issue a few months ago."
>
>Half a dozen not six seems to be your argument Sunil. Regardless of 
>if we tax a business directly or take it from individuals who gained 
>wealth from that business, the taxes raised are still coming from 
>the businesses production. Governments don't make money, they take 
>it from others.
>
>I think if you were to do a water project, say over 25-50 years 
>to access water from the Clearwater, you could pay for it 
>with a graduated water usage tax levied against business that use 
>water.  Another approach would be to attract several businesses that 
>use lots of water and make an agreement with them that if they were 
>to heavily finance a long term water project to provide a larger 
>source of fresh water to the community, they could have full 
>access of the current water aquifer for production purposes.
>
>There are many different approaches to using the value of the 
>resources we have to finance other resources we don't. If you have 
>gold but no oil, you use the gold to buy oil. We have valuable clay 
>but limited low quality water. We should sell the clay to get the 
>water we need. We should not sit on that resource, we should use it, 
>there are billions of dollars in revenue to be had. To make people 
>drink bad water and work for low paying jobs, when unnecessary, I 
>think goes against human rights.
>
>Sunil, I would love to read the article about the Clearwater access 
>costs provided by Mr. Solomon if you could provide a link.
>
>Best,
>
>Donovan
>
>
>
>
>
>Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Donovan,
>
>You wrote,
>
>"By allowing businesses that depend on water for profit to invest heavily
>into Moscow, it is virtually letting private enterprise find a solution to
>the problem for us. If a business makes or loses all of its profits by way
>of water, it is going to do all it can to keep the city water wells full,
>including finding, hiring and paying the people and resources needed to do
>it."
>
>My limited reading on this issue suggests that at least in the last 100
>years or so, most large-scale water development depended heavily on funds
>provided by taxpayers. You have suggested, both recently and in the past,
>that we should try to get water from the Clearwater River, as the Moscow
>water is so poor. Wouldn't a project of this scale also require taxpayer
>funds, and not be provided by private enterprise? I believe Mark Solomon
>provided some information on this issue a few months ago.
>
>Sunil
>
>
>
>>From: Donovan Arnold
>>To: Mark Solomon , lfalen ,
>>  "g. crabtree" , vision2020 at moscow.com
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Corridor debate: Daily News
>>Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 20:20:44 -0700 (PDT)
>>
>>I have to agree with Professor Harkins's approach on this issue. Mr.
>>Solomon's ideas are not based on economic realities and don't solve the
>>water problem, it just prolongs it.
>>
>>  Conservation is fine, but you have to have a viable plan to eventually
>>get to another water source. Developing restrictive policies that block the
>  >engineers, developers and capital to tap another source of water is going
>>in the opposite direction we need to go.
>>
>>  Water isn't just going to just appear on its own, we have to find it and
>>access it. By allowing businesses that depend on water for profit to invest
>>heavily into Moscow, it is virtually letting private enterprise find a
>>solution to the problem for us. If a business makes or loses all of its
>>profits by way of water, it is going to do all it can to keep the city
>>water wells full, including finding, hiring and paying the people and
>>resources needed to do it.
>>
>>  Mr. Solomon's plan of rejecting all businesses that use water and only
>>except businesses that are think tanks comprised of 18 year old college
>>students seems unrealistic and does not bring any resources to tackle the
>>water issue.
>>
>>  Further, I think developing the corridor is the best way to go. It
>>prevents sprawl to the outer areas of the cities and congestion in already
>>developed areas.
>>
>>  Thinking we shouldn't have stocking and service orientated jobs for
>>students I think is a bad idea. First, those lower paying jobs should go to
>>college students, not 40 year olds trying to make a living; somebody has to
>>ask, "Would you like fries with that?" And I don't think it should be
>>people middle aged with Master's in Environmental Science.
>>
>>  Finally, most of the City's problems would diminish if we allow
>>businesses to expand and new businesses to come in. Wages are a function of
>>how much wealth a worker produces and the supply of qualified workers.
>>Lots of low wealth producing jobs help raise wages because it reduces the
>>ratio of workers-to-jobs. Wealthy production jobs, like clay extraction,
>>produce greater wealth for the community, but those jobs usually require a
>>specific skill set so they rarely raise wages except for the few
>>individuals with that limited skill set.
>>
>>  Bottom-line is Latah needs jobs. It needs low value jobs and high value
>>jobs too. Prolonging conservation of water does not end the crisis, you
>>need a solution. The solution is to bring in the industry, people,
>>resources, and capital to get you more water.
>>
>>  Move forward to the solution, not backwards.
>>
>>  Best,
>>
>>  Donovan
>>
>>
>>
>>Mark Solomon wrote:
>>  Corridor growth debate heats up at UI
>>
>>A local activist and a university professor speak to development on the
>>Palouse
>>
>>By Ryan Bentley, Daily News staff writer
>>
>>Friday, April 13, 2007 - Page Updated at 12:00:00 AM
>>
>>Jeff Harkins said the Moscow community is the only thing that holds back a
>>change in property use on the Palouse. Mark Solomon said the Palouse itself
>>is a limitation.
>>
>>Both acknowledged the need for growth in the region during a Thursday night
>>forum at the University of Idaho sponsored by the UI Economics Club, but
>>that's about as close as the two came to agreement on what should be done.
>>
>>Harkins, a UI accounting professor, and Solomon, a local activist who
>>recently filed a protest to water right transfers for a proposed
>>large-scale development in the corridor just west of Moscow, debated
>>development in the corridor along the Pullman-Moscow Highway. Corridor
>>development has emerged as a hot topic over the last few years after
>>Whitman County designated the area as a development zone.
>>
>>Thursday's discussion revolved around growth laws, social conditions, water
>>and how it applied to corridor growth.
>>
>>Currently, the Hawkins Companies' proposed 700,000-square-foot shopping
>>center and the construction of James Toyota's new dealership constitute the
>>bulk of the emerging businesses in the corridor.
>>
>>Harkins advocated a "market-take-charge" approach, where consumers decide
>>what businesses locate in the area. He added that Moscow must honor state
>>sovereignty lines if the Palouse is going to bolster its economic engine.
>>
>>Solomon said Whitman and Latah counties must work together and select
>>businesses that will offer low-impact practices and high-paying jobs on the
>>Palouse.
>>
>>While Harkins said college students need the part-time jobs a new shopping
>>center would bring, Solomon said students would be better off studying and
>  >diving into the opportunities the university offers than wasting their time
>>stocking shelves and running a cash register.
>>
>>Instead, Solomon said, the Palouse should encourage intellectual based
>>businesses that could employ students and pay them a living wage while
>>adding to their education.
>>
>>The differences between the two speakers comes from their perception of the
>>natural resources of the Palouse.
>>
>>Solomon believes Palouse residents face a water scarcity problem. He said
>>growth can occur but it cannot be through a floodgate approach. Anyone who
>>depends on groundwater will be in jeopardy if the area doesn't rein in
>>development and quickly work to solve the problem of overusing the areas
>>groundwater supply.
>>
>>Harkins doesn't believe there are physical limitations to development of
>>the Palouse. He said Whitman and Latah counties should be able to find an
>>alternative water supply from the two counties that receive around 24
>>inches of rain a year.
>>
>>The area needs to expand and grow to attract people to the area who will be
>>able to work on the problem, Harkins said. The increased tax base will
>>allow the two counties to pay for projects to solve water problems.
>>
>>Part of the area's growth will occur in the corridor, Solomon and Harkins
>>said.
>>
>>Optimally, Solomon doesn't want development in the corridor. He said it
>>will cause congestion, lead to sprawl and put pressure on the water supply
>>in an area that is most likely a place where groundwater flows into the
>>aquifer system. Growth should occur around existing urban areas and not be
>>strung out along supply routes.
>>
>>Harkins said the expansion of the Pullman-Moscow Highway from two-lanes to
>>four-lanes is a huge step to connecting the two counties. Growth in the
>>corridor should focus on connectivity between the two universities.
>>Development should be led by entrepreneurs who foresee a need and aim to
>>fill it.
>>
>>Solomon doesn't foresee endless growth opportunities in the corridor. James
>>Toyota and the proposed Hawkins Companies development grabbed a large
>>portion of land available for development in the corridor. Any more growth
>>will be by businesses that do not demand a large infrastructure.
>>
>>Harkins said it's time for Latah County to destroy its image that it
>>interferes with Whitman County business and focus on how it can remain
>>competitive in the Palouse.
>>
>>Solomon said Latah County doesn't have to compete. It doesn't need
>>Wal-Marts and big-box stores to attract new businesses like Schweitzer
>>Engineering Labs. He likened Moscow to Boise before its building boom.
>>Solomon said the area's natural beauty, way of life and opportunities will
>>keep Latah County competitive.
>>
>>Ryan Bentley can be reached at (208) 882-5561, ext. 237, or by e-mail at
>>rbentley at dnews.com.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  At 1:14 PM -0700 4/13/07, lfalen wrote:
>>  Vary well said, as usual. I missed last nights debate. I was moving hay
>>until 6:00. How did it go?
>>  Roger=======================================================
>>List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>http://www.fsr.net
>>mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>=======================================================
>>
>>
>>---------------------------------
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>
>
>>=======================================================
>>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>  http://www.fsr.net
>>  mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>=======================================================
>
>
>=======================================================
>List services made available by First Step Internet,
>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>http://www.fsr.net
>mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>=======================================================
>
>
>
>
>Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
>Check out 
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