[Vision2020] SWISH! Donovan scores again....NOT
J Ford
privatejf32 at hotmail.com
Mon Sep 18 11:43:16 PDT 2006
So telling someone to stop the irrational and irresponsible harassment of a
CONSTITUTIONAL DEFENDER is being intolerant? Then, please - by all means
lump me in with the others. DJA has said things that not even the great
ToKnee can possibly accept is true because, living in LEWISTON like he does,
he does not know either Sunil or Nick or Keely nor anyone else on this list
outside of what he has mis-read or mis-heard DJA say about them. But in HIS
intolerance, ToKnee pats DJA on the back and gives him an "attaboy" just
because it sets people's teeth on edge and ToKnee gets off on that.
Wouldn't it be nice if for once Toknee would grow some and truly be a man
and talk to Sunil or Nick or anyone else MAN-TO-MAN instead of reading DJA's
rants. Yeah, yeah I know....asking too much of such a little mind and
ToKnee would have to actually BE a man in the true sense of the word.
DJA, ToKnee and Dick all fail to understand people who do not support their
way of thinking mainly because they fail to think. DJA makes statements
that he fails to understand people will hold him accountable for because it
gives him a sense of power he lacks in any other aspect of his life. I
mean, where else in his life do people stop and spend this much time on him
and make him the center of the topic? But then, instead of accepting
responsibility for his failure, DJA blames a disease he fictionally has and
says "you can't touch me." Thing is, DJA, you can be touched and if you
continue in your barrage of irresponsible statements and accusations, will
be.
"A man may fail many times but he isn't a (true) failure until he begins to
blame somebody or something else."
As for ToKnee - there has GOT to be something in Lewiston that you could be
doing instead of spreading your hate around up here in Moscow. Is there not
some politician or bad guy you could be going after? Or were both you and
Dick thrown off of the lists down there? Is that why we are burdened with
your presence?
J :]
>From: "Tony Simpson" <tonytime at clearwire.net>
>To: "keely emerinemix" <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] SWISH! Donovan scores again....
>Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 10:29:02 -0700
>
>Congratulations Donovan! A man is distinguished not only by the friends he
>makes, but also by his enemies, and you have made all the appropriate
>enemies. The hateful and intolerant terrorist sympathizers and America
>haters on this list are in a snit. How DARE you disagree with them
>Donovan!
>Don't you know your place? Can you be unaware of their manifest
>superiority? Can you be unaware how pathetic your life would be if left to
>your own free choices, unrestrained by their superior moral guidance and
>instruction?
>
>Whether it is the smug and condescending, pseudo-Christian Keely, the self
>absorbed elitist, Gier, or Sunil, defender of the sadistic brutes among us,
>you have them all in a dither. WELL DONE!
>
>In support of the latest victim of intolerant group-thinkers, -T
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "keely emerinemix" <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
>To: <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>; <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>;
><vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 2:26 PM
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] attacks that really matter
>
>
> > People write me off list or call me to ask why I ever respond to
>Donovan,
> > particularly when he goes off the edge and accuses me of things like
> > destroying MSD by turning two-thirds of our neighbors against public
> > education -- singlehandedly. (Gee, and I had hoped to use my powers for
> > good, not evil. Bummer it didn't work out that way. Dang.)
> >
> > On a more serious note, let me just say that I am disinclined to respond
> > to
> > Donovan when he writes about me, or about things that have no real
> > consequence. But there are things that Donovan says via Vision 2020
>that
> > could, potentially, result in very real consequences. One of them is
>his
> > slanderous attacks against Sunil Ramalingam.
> >
> > The political climate of the day is dangerous. It's dangerous to engage
> > in
> > public criticism of our government, it's dangerous to defend people at
> > home
> > and abroad who are victims of any form of oppression the White House
> > doesn't
> > recognize as terrorism, and it's dangerous, frankly, to be very
>different
> > from your neighbor. By "dangerous," I don't mean that jack-booted thugs
> > will automatically drag you from your house, or that roaming bands of
> > vigilantes will beat you to a bloody pulp. I do mean that there is a
> > climate of hatred and hysteria in the U.S. now that makes speaking out
> > against any part of our "war on terrorism" risky to one's reputation,
> > livelihood, and perhaps even one's physical safety in some communities.
> >
> > We've defined the "other," and we presume to know who he is simply
>because
> > of a facet of "otherness" that we believe we've identified. We fear
> > dark-skinned men of Middle Eastern descent because of the vicious
>actions
> > of
> > a few, but most of white America would be loath to hold Anglo men in
>wary
> > suspicion, even though white youths are the ones committing school
> > shootings
> > and middle-aged white men are looting the pensions of American workers
> > through Enron and other white-collar acts of economic violence. Even
> > people
> > I had considered to be liberals acknowledge their unease and disgust
>with
> > "them" (Muslims, Middle-Eastern men, foreign students, Sikhs, or anyone
> > else
> > who looks, believes, and acts differently while possessing skin darker
> > than
> > theirs), and they do so with only the vaguest sense of remorse. It is
> > wrong
> > in this or any other political climate to accuse someone of siding with
>or
> > defending terrorists without clear, incontrovertible proof that that is,
> > in
> > fact, true. But if Sunil were, say, a freckled guy named Kevin
>O'Reilly,
> > I
> > doubt that the sneering accusations would gather much traction. That he
> > isn't a towheaded Anglo guy ought to be neither here nor there, but
>Sunil
> > has volunteered that he has been called many ugly things because of his
> > race
> > and coloration, and in a country obsessed with finding "them" -- those
> > seemingly normal-looking people who are really out to hurt us -- such
> > accusations of sympathy for terrorists are particularly odious and
> > particularly damaging. Read Dick Sherwin's comments earlier today: the
> > idea that perhaps Sunil is showing "his true self" is, frankly, chilling
> > in
> > the context of the day.
> >
> > I have stated before that Sunil doesn't need my defense, nor has he ever
> > asked for it. I've seen Sunil twice in my life, and the most recent was
> > last month, at the sentencing of my friend Bob on drug charges. I love
> > Bob
> > and I'm grateful for Sunil's work on his case; more than that, I think
> > that
> > the work Sunil does represents the very best part of what makes America
> > different from nations groaning under the burden of fascist, theological
> > oppression. I would be morally wrong to remain silent when his
>character
> > is
> > attacked -- even if it means engaging with Donovan. I'm sorry he's as
> > angry
> > with me as he is, but he has my prayers anyway; other than that, I spend
> > little time thinking about it all.
> >
> > The stakes in this game are high, too high to assume that the maturity
>or
> > intelligence of the accuser in any way negates or mutes the effect on
>the
> > accused.
> >
> > keely
> >
> > From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
> > To: keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com>, sunilramalingam at hotmail.com,
> > vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Keely -- not a wielder of great power
> > Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 01:56:34 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> > Keely,
> >
> > For someone that claims they do not care what I think or say you sure
> > spend a lot of time addressing my comments.
> >
> > I NEVER referred to Sunil's defense of terrorists in reference to his
> > workplace. I was referring to his defense of terrorists on Vision2020,
>I
> > think I made that clear, repeatedly. If you read my entire email and
> > clicked the links I provided you would know that.
> >
> > As to the defense of already convicted child molesters, Sunil has
> > already
> > stated that he does that. You agreed that was great and important, that
> > is
> > your right, I don't agree with that.
> >
> > As to your ability to wield power, I think you have demonstrated a
>great
> > deal of power to destroy the Moscow School District and enrage its
> > supporters. MSD lost revenue and support to replace Russell and West
>Park
> > by attaching it to a financially irresponsible plan, that to me is a
> > great
> > deal of power. I haven't know anyone to turn 63% of Moscow against
> > education, but you have that power Keely.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > _DJA
> >
> > keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com> wrote: Donovan,
> >
> > I couldn't care less what you think of me, and I'm sure Sunil is not
> > terribly bothered by what you think of him. And I am well acquainted
>with
> > the definition and criteria for slander. It is slanderous for you to
>say
> > that Sunil "defends terrorists," particularly given his position as a
> > public
> > defender. The context of "defending" is, in this case, that he works as
> > an
> > attorney and "defender" of those accused of crimes. Should you ever be
> > accused of a crime, I would presume that you would be cognizant of the
> > importance of his work.
> >
> > I am a "master" of nothing, really, and if I wielded the power to make
> > people believe the sun really does come up in the West, my kitchen
>would
> > be
> > a helluva lot cleaner right now, such would be my influence over the
> > teenagers living with me. Frankly, the only thing I would do if I had
> > such
> > tremendous powers of persuasion would be to offer to meet with you to
> > discuss real issues like real adults. However, I suspect that would be
>as
> > fruitful as my clearing my plugged kitchen sink by inhaling the contents
> > of
> > the drain, and only slightly less unpleasant.
> >
> > keely
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Donovan Arnold
> > To: Sunil Ramalingam , vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Sunil and His Defense of Terrorists
> > andConvictedChild Molesters
> > Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 14:02:45 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> > Jackie,
> >
> > I never stated that Sunil supports terrorism and child molestation,
> > that
> > is preposterous, re-read what I wrote. I said he defends those that do.
> >
> > Keely,
> >
> > The definition of slander is the saying of something that is false
>and
> > damaging. If it is true, it isn't slander. Sunil himself admits to
> > defending convicted child molesters:
> >
> >
> > "It is true that I defend convicted child molesters at sentencing
> >
> > hearings that occur after a client has been convicted by a jury"
> >
> > Sunil Ramalingam--
> > http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2006-September/035436.html
> >
> >
> > Sunil,
> >
> > I am not going to try and argue with you. For you are the master of
> > convincing the jury that the Sun really rises in the West depending on
> > ones
> > point of view.
> >
> > I am sure that you can argue that I got the context wrong in some of
> > your
> > posts, but after 20+ such posts over 2.5 years it is hard to write all
> > them
> > off.
> >
> > FYI, I did support Sami Omar. He was living in UI Family Housing at the
> > time he was abducted. I represented Family Housing in the UI student
> > government at the time. I defended Sami in student council and even
> > brought
> > his family there, which was even aired on public television. I kept in
> > contact with John Dickinson about what was going at the trial in Boise.
> > That case is different, because it was a domestic case and there was no
> > evidence whatsoever that Sami was a terrorist, in fact it all pointed
>in
> > the opposite direction. Further, Sami was not saying he was planning on
> > killing Americans when he gets out like those detained overseas. And,
>at
> > least one member of Sami's family was born right here in Moscow.
> >
> > I don't think the government can detain someone forever without at
> > least
> > trying to find out if someone is guilty. But letting them go if they
>say
> > "Death to America" is just to risky when they are capable of acting on
> > it.
> >
> > My disagreement with you Sunil, is that you clearly are brilliant,
>yet
> > rather than using your talents to defend victims in our society, you
>use
> > your wit and experience to defend convicted child molesters.
> >
> > I am not arguing you are not doing your job, or you are not good at
>it.
> > I am arguing that your job should be something more productive and
> > meaningful then the release of child molesters and the scum of the
>earth
> > when you know they are guilty.
> >
> > I am sure you with your big brain will justify that in your own mind.
> > But
> > I think anyone with a heart will ask WHY the child molesters get a good
> > lawyer and trial when there are so many other more deserving and
>wronged
> > people with their rights being stepped on. They should be a higher
> > priority
> > to you and any lawyer concerned about justice.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > _DJA
> >
> > Sunil Ramalingam wrote: Tom,
> >
> > It is true that I defend convicted child molesters at sentencing
>hearings
> > that occur after a client has been convicted by a jury (or a judge in
> > juvenile cases) at the sentencing hearing and in subsequent legal
> > proceedings, or at a post-conviction hearing filed by a client who is
> > usually in prison. If a convicted child molester is charged with a new
> > crime, then I may defend that person. As a public defender I don't
>judge
> > my
> > clients; there is no shortage of people ready to do this (regardless of
> > how
> > much or how little information they have about the crime or the
>criminal)
> > and it's not my place or job to do so. I try to represent them to the
> > best
> > of my ability, and I don't apologize for this.
> >
> > I have never represented a convicted terrorist as a lawyer, though I
>would
> > were I to be appointed to do so or if I were retained to do so. I did
> > represent a witness in Sami al Hussein's case, and am happy I was able
>to
> > offer him assistance. Perhaps Donovan would like to insult me for doing
> > so.
> >
> > As one who believes our judicial system has underlying principles, I
> > believe
> > that all people who are held have the right to due process and a fair
>and
> > proper hearing. I do not believe that we have the right to imprison
> > people,
> > no matter what we label them, forever, or to try them in kangaroo
>courts.
> > This is a defense of legal principle and human rights. I consider it a
> > defense of our country, and the notion that we have enduring principles
> > These are beliefs that Donovan neither shares nor supports. He is a fan
> > of
> > expedience.
> >
> > Though Donovan does not support the Iraq war, he appears to find the
>Bush
> > Administration infallible once they arrest or confine a Muslim. At that
> > point he believes it is appropriate to hold that person indefinately. I
> > find this position shameful and disgusting, and Donovan finds me
>repugnant
> > because of this, I am willing to live with the loss of his approval.
> >
> > It is interesting to note the subject line of Donovan's most recent
>post.
> > He has claimed he only attacks those who attack him. Most recently he
> > incorrectly made fun of Keely's spelling; I asked him if he wanted the
> > same
> > done to him. Since we all post all too quickly, we all make spelling
> > errors, and few of us would really want to have our own posts criticized
> > for
> > our typos. This is the point I was making.
> >
> > Donovan, in the thoughtful and Christian response we have all learned so
> > well, responds by attacking my character in a way that has the smallest
> > germ
> > of truth but is intended to be a slur. I have written him offline and
> > pointed out that hatred of Middle Easterners has often resulted in
>racial
> > slurs and threats being directed towards me; I have told him that I
> > consider
> > his calling me a defender of terrorists could actually be harmful to me.
> > You see the effect (or is it 'affect' Donovan?) my request has had on
>him.
> >
> > Of course, this is the man, or aging adolescent, who has suggested it
> > would
> > benefit the gene pool if children were to die playing in construction
> > sites
> > that should be off-limits if their parents fail to provide proper
> > supervision, so I would be foolish to expect better of him.
> >
> > Sunil
> >
> >
> > >From: "Tom Hansen"
> > >To: "'Donovan Arnold'" , "'Sunil
> > >Ramalingam'" ,
> > >Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Sunil and His Defense of Terrorists and
> > >ConvictedChild Molesters
> > >Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 07:05:37 -0700
> > >
> > >Arnold -
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Your statement, here on a public listserve, that Sunil Ramalingam
> > defends
> > >convicted child molesters and convicted terrorists, reflects upon your
> > lack
> > >of maturity and sense of decency, and in virtually all litigious
>circles
> > >maybe considered libelous.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Name ONE convicted child molester which Sunil has defended!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Name ONE convicted terrorist which Sunil has defended!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Failing either of these requests, you owe Sunil a VERY meaningful and
> > VERY
> > >public apology.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Tom Hansen
> > >
> > >Vandalville, Idaho
> > >
> >
> >
> > =======================================================
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> > http://www.fsr.net
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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