[Vision2020] Iraqis Suspend Police Brigade

[Matt Decker]

Dick,

One and one question comes to mind for me. What should we do in order to win 
the war? Not just the minds but also the battle.

Matt


>From: "Dick Sherwin" <rvrcowboy at clearwire.net>
>To: "Vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>, "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Iraqis Suspend Police Brigade
>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 08:27:28 -0700
>
>Tom Hansen writes: :Yes.  I supported liberating Iraq from Saddam Hussein.
>That was back when
> > this war had a cause."
>---------------------------------------------------------
>
>Well Tom,
>
>This war does have a cause, (I am surprised to see you admitted it ever
>did).  Unfortunately that cause has been turned into a ploitical event by
>the ultra libs and the far left to be used as a weapon against
>conservatives.
>
>America has lost the guts to ever win another war.  With nearly half the
>poplulation firmly encamped in the mire of the far leftists, demanding
>better treatment and more rights for terrorists than for our own troops,
>constantly putting the face of defeat on America, calling for a cut and run
>withdrawl from the war, castigating our own troops constantly and making it
>perfectly clear through the media all the terrorists have to do to win the
>greatest victory of their dreams, the defeat of the Great Satan (the USA) 
>is
>keep killing each other and whatever American troops they can and we will
>indeed cut and run.
>This, it appears to me, is the new purpose of the war, to put the Democrats
>back in power and to turn our moral values over to people like George 
>Soros.
>
>You may be right, perhaps we should justa cut and run, bring our troops 
>home
>and let the Muslim sects kill as many of each other as possible.  Then we
>should just drop the big one on the rest and turn the desert into glass all
>the way to the border of Iran, sending that rogue nation a clear message
>that we will no longer pamper their support of terrorism around the world.
>
>I can't honestly tell you whether I am more sick and tired of the 
>terrorists
>in Iraq or the whinny tit politically motivated pussies here in our own
>country who are doing everything in their power to hand them the greatest
>victory they could ever have.
>
>War is hell, it is not pretty.  Unfortunately, sometimes it is necessary
>and, when it is, it should be fought in an all out effort to win and 
>shorten
>the carnage to people on both sides as much as possible.  That means 
>maximum
>effort and doing what it takes to secure a desireable outcome.  Or, would
>you rather sit around speaking German to your grandmother, the lampshade?
>
>Dick S
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
>To: "Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 7:23 AM
>Subject: [Vision2020] Iraqis Suspend Police Brigade
>
>
> > >From today's (October 5, 2006) Los Angeles Times -
> >
> > BRING OUR TROOPS HOME ! ! !
> >
> > Yes.  I supported liberating Iraq from Saddam Hussein.  That was back 
>when
> > this war had a cause.
> >
> > Our troops are currently being killed at a rate that exceeds any time
> > previously.  There is no end in sight.  There is no defined goal.  Our
> > troops are fighting a split insurgency (Suuni and Shiite) in a civil war
> > that we do not belong.
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Iraqis Suspend Police Brigade
> > The Interior Ministry acts after the force based in Baghdad is linked to
> > abductions and killings.
> > By Kim Murphy and Doug Smith
> > Times Staff Writers
> >
> > October 5, 2006
> >
> > BAGHDAD - Iraqi authorities said Wednesday that they have suspended an
> > entire brigade of as many as 1,200 police officers for suspected
>connections
> > to kidnappings and executions.
> >
> > The Interior Ministry said it would recall and retrain the national
>police's
> > 8th Brigade, based in the capital, after witnesses reported that men
>wearing
> > police uniforms were behind the kidnapping Sunday of 26 workers at a 
>south
> > Baghdad meat processing plant.
> >
> > Six of the workers later were found dead. One who had been shot and left
>for
> > dead apparently crawled away to a military checkpoint, authorities said.
> >
> > The decommissioning comes after street protests erupted at one of the
>police
> > unit's checkpoints in the capital, and U.S. military officials requested
> > that one of the three battalions in the brigade be recalled.
> >
> > "There is clear evidence that there was some complicity in allowing 
>death
> > squad elements to move freely, when in fact they were supposed to be
> > impeding their movement, that perhaps they did not respond as rapidly 
>when
> > reports were made," said Army Maj. Gen. William B. Caldwell IV, 
>spokesman
> > for the U.S.-led coalition forces in Iraq.
> >
> > He said the Iraqi government had "lost trust and confidence in the .
> > division's ability to serve the public due to their poor performance and
> > alleged criminal wrongdoings."
> >
> > The decommissioning is the latest in a series of moves being undertaken 
>by
> > Iraqi and U.S. military authorities to combat the possible infiltration 
>of
> > Iraq's army and security services by insurgents or sectarian combatants.
> >
> > The crackdown on the police came on another deadly day for U.S. troops,
>four
> > of whom were killed by small-arms fire while on patrol northwest of
>Baghdad,
> > according to U.S. military authorities. A fifth soldier died of wounds
> > sustained a day earlier near Kirkuk, bringing the total since Saturday 
>to
>21
> > U.S. military fatalities.
> >
> > Nationwide, nine Iraqi police officers died in violence. Six were killed
>by
> > a roadside bomb in Baghdadi, in Al Anbar province. One was killed and
>three
> > were wounded during a demonstration at a police station in central
>Baghdad.
> > Two more died in an attack on a police patrol in Baqubah, north of the
> > capital.
> >
> > In Baghdad, a car bomb apparently aimed at a convoy belonging to 
>Industry
> > Minister Fawzi Hariri killed 14 civilians and injured more than 70. 
>Hariri
> > wasn't in the car.
> >
> > Ministry of Health statistics released Wednesday show that 2,667 
>civilians
> > died violently in September, and 2,994 were injured, a level consistent
>with
> > the summer's high monthly tallies. A substantial number of them fell
>victim
> > to death squads, which often pull passersby off sidewalks, seize people
>from
> > their homes, or drag motorists out of their cars. Their bodies often are
> > found bearing gunshot wounds and signs of torture.
> >
> > Authorities said they had documented a near-record number of bomb 
>attacks,
> > including both car bombs and roadside explosives.
> >
> > Government and military officials increasingly fear that the police and
> > other security services have links to corruption and sectarian violence.
> > Since June, the Interior Ministry has fired 1,700 officers suspected of
> > corruption, abuse of authority or other violations, a ministry spokesman
> > told The Times.
> >
> > In the incident Sunday at the frozen-meat processing plant in the south
> > Baghdad neighborhood of Amil, about half a dozen men claiming to be 
>police
> > officers entered and began asking employees for identification cards
>before
> > ordering most of them into a truck and driving away.
> >
> > At another location, the employees were beaten and then separated into
> > Sunnis and Shiites, with the Shiites permitted to leave, according to a
> > survivor who was interviewed by investigators from the 172nd Stryker
>Brigade
> > Combat Team.
> >
> > A military source said the kidnappers asked one man, "Why are you 
>working
> > with these Sunnis?" before releasing him.
> >
> > All of the shooting victims were Sunnis.
> >
> > Cartridge casings found at the scene of the kidnapping match those used 
>in
> > handguns carried by Iraqi police, but differ from those most commonly 
>used
> > on the street, military investigators said.
> >
> > Wednesday's actions came after Army Lt. Col. John Norris, commander of 
>the
> > 172nd Stryker Brigade's 23rd forward battalion, issued a request to
> > decommission the first of the Iraqi unit's three battalions.
> >
> > U.S. military officials said the Interior Ministry already had opened an
> > investigation of possible connections or cooperation between the brigade
>and
> > death squads operating in the capital, and it moved to decommission the
>unit
> > after the protests and Norris' request.
> >
> > "The case that was building against the 8th Brigade of the Iraqi 
>national
> > police that works in Amil was based on corruption, infiltration,
>complacency
> > and possibly committing sectarian murders in their area of
>responsibility,"
> > Norris said in an interview.
> >
> > "They set up checkpoints throughout the town, they run patrols 
>throughout
> > their area of responsibility, so the question that begs to be answered 
>is,
> > why were they having such a spike in murders in their area?" he said.
>"When
> > they have a significant number of checkpoints that should facilitate
> > controlling traffic and providing security."
> >
> > He said the apparent disparity raised a question: "Are they contributing
>to
> > security, or are they causing the poor security conditions?"
> >
> > Interior Ministry spokesman Alaa Taie said the decommissioning and
> > retraining would allow the government to determine whether charges 
>lodged
> > against the unit had any basis.
> >
> > "Were there deficiencies and failures that resulted in the kidnapping .
>and
> > is it true that there was cooperation between the police and the 
>militias?
> > This is what we hope to find out," he said.
> >
> > A report for the Council on Foreign Relations last year said there was
> > "widespread" infiltration of security forces by insurgents, including
> > hard-core fighters who slipped through the hiring checks and 
>sympathizers
> > who helped militias and insurgents. Some police appeared to help the
> > insurgents out of intimidation and fear, the report said.
> >
> > U.S. authorities who were overseeing the early formation of the police
> > forces were forced to rely on local expertise in evaluating who was
> > suitable, said report author Sharon Otterman, former associate director 
>of
> > the council.
> >
> > "The other big issue is who, exactly, were they trying to keep out of 
>the
> > forces? At the beginning, it was more a concern of looking for former
> > Baathists," she said. "Now what we're seeing is infiltration of every 
>kind
> > of group - the Shia militias, not to mention the Sunnis, and everybody
> > else."
> >
> > Sunni lawmakers have complained of Shiite infiltration of security
>services
> > not only in Baghdad, but also in many quarters of Iraq. Others complain
>that
> > Sunni Arab militias are working hand in hand with the police to target
>other
> > groups.
> >
> > "The security has deteriorated, and the fact is clear that these
> > infiltrations are partly responsible," said Mohammed Daini, a Sunni 
>member
> > of parliament. Daini has alleged that senior army officers in the Diyala
> > region appear to have connections to Shiite militias or the Iranian
> > Revolutionary Guard.
> >
> > "There is an outrageous intervention by Iranian intelligence [in the
> > police]," Daini said. "We can say that death squads are inside the Iraqi
> > government, through their existence in the army and the police. And this
>is
> > known to the Americans."
> >
> > U.S. military officials said members of the 8th Brigade would be 
>retrained
> > by Iraqis under U.S. guidance, and some officers might lose their jobs 
>or
> > face prosecution.
> >
> > Taie said authorities had not received any direct evidence that 
>sectarian
> > militias had infiltrated the police brigade, but he said the issue of
> > infiltration was "natural" with a police force formed under conditions 
>of
> > chaos, constant threat and sectarian violence.
> >
> > "When you try to found an institution under terrible circumstances of
> > disturbed security, infiltrations can be possible," he said. "But it's
> > important that the Ministry of Interior and the elected government are
> > working to restore security and follow up on not only the corruptors, 
>but
> > the terrorists."
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Seeya round town, Moscow.
> >
> > Tom Hansen
> > Vandalville, Idaho
> >
> > "The Muslim world has been killing each other for centuries over 
>sectarian
> > stupidity.  I doubt anythng will ever change that."
> >
> >  - dick Sherwin (October 5, 2006)
> >
> >
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> >
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