[Vision2020] The Keely Mix/Doug Wilson Debate

[rvrcowboy]

A direct quote from Nick Gier:  "I'm busy writing my commentary on the U.S.
and Torture (Preliminary title "Beheadings, Hoodings, and Water Boarding:
CIA Torture from Vietnam to Gitmo"),......."

Nick,

I do not understand your passionate desire to constantly denounce our
troops, our military and our country, in favor of the tactics of terrorists.
We all understand that, in a time of war and under pressure, people
sometimes do things they would not normally do.  We also understand the fact
that, in the case of our soldiers and military, these times are more rare
than the standard of actions.

In a hypothetical scenerio, if you were a captured combatant; Would you
prefer to be a prisoner of war, held captive by any of the Coalition forces,
or, would you prefer to be a prisoner of the extremist factions, operating
under no rules of engagement and no rules what-so-ever concerning the
treatment of prisoners?  Is your commentary going to include some exposure
of the heinous tactics commonly employed by other side, or, are you only
interested in exposing the actions of the few, serving our own country, who
have made an error?

I am not questioning your right to your own opinions as to the war on
terrorism we presently find ourselves engaged in.  I just do not understand
how you justify your endless criticisms of the very country that affords you
the freedom of dissent.  After all, as a university professor, you have
enjoyed the privileges of being an employee of the very government you
appear to be unable to tolerate.  Can you honestly say you attitude would
not be different if Bill Clinton or John Kerry were President, as opposed to
George W. Bush?  Under the same circumstances, do you really believe their
options would be any different?

I would like to take the opportunity to apologize to you for some of my past
actions of calling you names and condeming you for have a different opinion,
from my own.  I would also like to assure you that I am asking these
questions in ernest and not to challenge your right to your opinions.  It is
just difficult for me to understand why you appear to support the enemies of
our country more than our own troops and your own country.

Looking forward to your reply and hoping you will not make it too long and
too far over my head for me to understand.  :)

Have a wonderful day,

Dick S.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <nickgier at adelphia.net>
To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 10:26 AM
Subject: [Vision2020] The Keely Mix/Doug Wilson Debate


> Greetings:
>
> I'm busy writing my commentary on the U.S. and Torture (Preliminary title
"Beheadings, Hoodings, and Water Boarding: CIA Torture from Vietnam to
Gitmo"), but I wanted to take a moment to give my initial response to the
Wilson-Mix debate.
>
> I've met a lot of people over the years that I consider to be the
embodiment of the teachings of Jesus, and Keely is up there among the true
Christians that I've had the pleasure of knowing.  It should come to no
surprise to those on this list that I do not rate Doug Wilson very high in
this category.
>
> I listened to the first hour of the debate, and I will certainly have more
to say after I listen to Tom's recording, but let me comment on five points:
>
> 1. Predestination.  Wilson's response here was completely off the point.
Keely's main point was not that Wilsonian predestinarians were passive, but
that they were irresponsible, rude, and juvenile.  I'm reminded of a
quotation attributed to Luther (it may indeed be somewhere in those 54
volumes): "Sin boldly for grace abounds!"  The belief that some are already
saved and some are already damned can be turned very easily into the enemy
theology that Wilson & Co. so shamelessly practice.
>
> 2. The Dickinson Article.  The issue is not how old it is, but whether or
not Wilson has disowned it.  As far as I know, he has not.  The article was
published under the Latin heading "Magistralis," an honorific meaning
"pertaining to the master or teacher." The Magisterium of the Roman
Catholics lays down the "Laws of the Church."  Greg Dickinson is the lawyer
for Christ Church and here he presumably is laying down the laws of his
church with the authority of the church attorney.
>
> 3. Credentials.  Keely should have been more proactive on this one.  Keely
does not claim to have any academic standing in the world, but Wilson does.
Wilson's college has been accredited by the low level Transnational
Association for Christian Colleges and Schools. This agency required that
NSA faculty have proper credentials for teaching.  There had to be at least
one third PhDs (a very low requirement) and all had to have MAs in their
subject areas. (By the way, Ben Merkle's is not in his teaching area.) There
is a rumor that Wilson is trying to get a PhD from some willing evangelical
institution (I suspect that he has approached Liberty University) based on
this published writings alone.  Therefore, Wilson is evasively equivocal on
the issue of academic credentials, and also rudely irresponsible in
condemning most evangelical colleges and seminaries as not being Christian.
>
> 4. Imprecatory Prayers.  Wilson again was evasive and disingenuous.
Several Christ Church members have told me that there is no praying to make
their enemies their friends.  On the contrary, the prayers request that they
be destroyed, as a symbolic expression of God's wrath that will rain down on
the non-elect when the "tsunami" of divine judgment will destroy all their
"beach chairs" in the Last Days.  You can witness for yourself Wilson saying
and gesturing this in the documentary "Our Town."
>
> 5. Wilson's Two Churches.  When Wilson says that God has been good to his
church for over 30 years, he neglects to mention that he has essentially
served two churches: a nondenominational Community Evangelical Fellowship
and a neo-Confederate Calvinist Christ Church.  (The Confederate flag was
once displayed behind the pulpit.) There has been discussion on this list
about how the elders of the former rejected Wilson's Calvinism and his
desire to baptize infants, and then sought, unsuccessfully, to remove him as
pastor.  Steve Wilkins, Wilson's buddy from Louisiana and Founding Director
of the League of the South, was one of the primary influences on Wilson's
theological conversion to Calvinism.  Wilkins also is one of the principal
recruiters for Logos and NSA students.
>
> Finally, I thought that Wilson was unusually bumbling, hesitant, and
inarticulate.  These adjectives do not describe Keely at all.  You go, girl!
>
> Nick Gier, Banshee and God Hater
> Titles given to me by Pastor Wilson
>
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