[Vision2020] Death threats over religious cartoons?

Tue Jan 31 21:13:21 PST 2006

Wayne

Open discourse can include drawing cartoons which may not be complimentry to 
the religion of another person.  When that is the case, the worst that can 
happen to you are the standard idle threats.  This is significantly 
different than having a fatwah issued calling for all good Muslims to kill 
you on sight or for holy warriors to drive car bombs into the building that 
publishes your paper.

In all the concern I have seen that government and religion not mix, where 
has anybody been with regards to the Islamic Student website calling for and 
promiting conversion to Islam?  If any Christian group was promoting 
religion on campus using Student activity funds we would hear holy hell 
about it.

When gays are hanged in Iran from construction craines, why the blind eye?  
When they stone women to death for adultry or stone young girls to death for 
flirting, where is the outrage?

The thing is Wayne, you are wiling to accept Islamic folks actions that are 
ten times worse than the CCers ever thought about being because accepting 
them is a mark of your acceptance of cultural diversity.  If you go out on a 
lmb and call their practices into the same kind of question that you do 
people of more typical American religious views, you woud be marked as a 
bigot.

Doug Wilson may say he thinks Gays wil go to hell and he can even say he 
thiks they should be stoned, but he will never have such power here.  
Islamic Courts have the power to stone gays to death and use it.  Wilson and 
company can only get following by convincing people to follow their faith 
and stay with their church something that does not exactly make them a 
growth industry from what I have seen to date.  The Islamic clerics in one 
heck of a lot of countries have complete power to not only police their own 
folks, they have the right to condemn to death any person of another 
religions who they deem has caste a slander on their faith.

Christians are not slughtering us who are not of their faith, but Islamic 
Clerics are.  Tens of thousands of people are being murdered every year by 
Islamic religious courts and by their overzealous adherents.  Not one peep 
do I hear about the civil rights violation that that entails.

So seeing the Danes scramble to give an apology that they would never dain 
to give to any Christian or Jewish Group is interesting to me.  If our local 
paper were to run a cartoon of the Prophet with a bomb for a hat, would 
there be threats that the Daily News would be blown to smitherens?  Would 
you recommend that the Daily News Apologize for running such a cartoon?

Just wondering.

Phil
>From: "Art Deco" <deco at moscow.com>
>To: "Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Death threats over religious cartoons?
>Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 20:26:17 -0800
>
>Phil,
>
>There is hardly anything of substance spoke/written/drawn/etc on political, 
>economic, social, and/or religious matters that will not offend someone. 
>Just reading this list over a period of time and the reactions to various 
>points of view should provide any reader with tons of proof of such an 
>assertion.
>
>Even the most civil conversations on these matters can offend some.  That 
>is the nature of human discourse, and it will continue for a variety of 
>reasons, seeking truth, manipulating others, asserting power, 
>exhibiting/protecting egotism just to name a few.
>
>That is why living in a country with freedom of expression is, for me, and 
>I expect for you, one of life's greatest blessings.
>
>I can tell you that during the times I taught philosophy at the UI and 
>actually during the semester I taught MIS in the College of Business, I 
>received all kinds of threats, not to mention other related problems to 
>deal with.  That also is the nature of discussing/exploring ontological 
>problems.
>
>At his point in time no one owns the truth.  Many of us are sincerely 
>trying to make a tiny bit of progress toward a better understanding of the 
>universe, others not.  Open discourse, which is certainly offensive to 
>some, is one of the most important tools in those attempts at progress.
>
>W.
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Nisbet" <pcnisbet1 at hotmail.com>
>To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 6:23 PM
>Subject: [Vision2020] Death threats over religious cartoons?
>
>
>>I was wondering if those really really POed at Wilson and company had read 
>>this particular controversy?  If one of our publications prints a cartoon 
>>that Islamic folks do not like are we liable to attack on that basis?
>>
>>By JAN M. OLSEN, Associated Press Writer
>>Tue Jan 31, 5:38 PM ET
>>
>>
>>
>>COPENHAGEN, Denmark - A Danish Muslim group Tuesday accepted an apology 
>>from a newspaper that published offensive cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad 
>>but said later that it had decided the statement was ambiguous.
>>
>>The group did not elaborate and it was unclear if there would be any 
>>effect on protests and boycotts of Danish goods in Muslim countries.
>>
>>The offices of the newspaper Jyllands-Posten were briefly evacuated 
>>Tuesday evening after an English-speaking person called in a bomb threat 
>>to the switchboard, and an Internet statement purportedly from insurgents 
>>in     Iraq urged attacks in Denmark and Norway, the first known call for 
>>violent reprisals over the cartoons.
>>
>>The authenticity of the Internet posting in the name of the Mujahedeen 
>>Army, which claimed to have shot down a U.S. helicopter in Iraq earlier 
>>this month, could not be independently verified.
>>
>>Jyllands-Posten published 12 cartoons in September after asking artists to 
>>depict Islam's prophet in what was described as a test of self-censorship. 
>>The depictions included incendiary images such as Muhammad wearing a 
>>turban shaped as a bomb with a burning fuse.
>>
>>A Norwegian newspaper reprinted the images this month.
>>
>>In a statement published late Monday, Jyllands-Posten apologized and said 
>>it regretted offending Muslims. It stood by the decision to print the 
>>cartoons, saying it was within Danish law.
>>
>>The drawings "were not intended to be offensive, nor were they at variance 
>>with Danish law, but they have indisputably offended many Muslims for 
>>which we apologize," the daily said Monday.
>>
>>Danish Muslims said Tuesday that they welcomed the apology. However, 27 
>>Muslim groups met later in the day to discuss the statement and declared 
>>it "ambiguous."
>>
>>"We lack a clear statement where the newspaper apologizes for the offense 
>>and stand by it," said Ahmed Akkari, a spokesman for the groups.
>>
>>The Danish Muslims thanked Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen for saying 
>>Monday evening that his government could not apologize on behalf of a 
>>newspaper, but that he personally "never would have depicted Muhammad, 
>>Jesus or any other religious character in a way that could offend other 
>>people."
>>
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>
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