[Vision2020] City Council and the Pledge

Art Deco deco at moscow.com
Sat Jan 21 19:47:17 PST 2006 

To satisfy the HUTAs like Donovan, I think we should require each council 
member to sign and to recite a loyalty oath at the start of each meeting and 
every 15 minutes thereafter so that we know they loyalty has not changed. 
Anyone who opposes this idea is obviously a terrorist or a pinko communist.

W.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 3:20 PM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] City Council and the Pledge


> Wasn't the pledge meant to be just that - a pledge?  We have the President 
> "pledge" his allegience to this country when he takes office - he does not 
> say it every day.  We have the Congress say a "pledge" when THEY take 
> office - they do not say it every day.  When this council took office, 
> THEY took a "pledge" - they do not say it every day.
>
> I have looked up the definition of pledge:
>
> a binding promise or agreement to do or forbear: a person who has so 
> promised
>
> I also looked up oath:
>
> a solemn usually formal calling upon God or a god to witness to the truth 
> of what one says or to witness that one sincerely intends to do what one 
> says (2) : a solemn attestation of the truth or inviolability of one's 
> words b : something (as a promise) corroborated by an oath
>
> In other words, a PROMISE or PLEDGE to do as one has said they would do.
>
> I don't believe we need to continually ask these people to make this 
> promise; the fact that they are in office and working towards the 
> betterment of this city says they will.  (NOTE:  Nixon took the oath and 
> said the "pledge" - as did Bush I and II - anyone care to "vouch" for them 
> just because they said it?)
>
> Someone said it earlier - just because you say the pledge does not mean 
> you will follow it - nor does it mean that if you don't say it, you will 
> not follow it.  How many times do you say it - daily, weekly, monthly, 
> yearly, whenever?  Are you any less a patriot or loyal to this country if 
> you don't?
>
> Don't we have better things to deal with than this?
>
> J  :]
>
>
>
>
>>From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
>>To: Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
>>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] City Council and the Pledge
>>Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 14:59:14 -0800 (PST)
>>
>>I fail to see the logical connection between  searching hand bags and 
>>saying the pledge of allegiance, Sunil.; but I  guess that is why you are 
>>the lawyer and I am stupid college kid.
>>
>>   However, I will point out that saying the pledge of allegiance, fight 
>> songs, national anthems, etc. by a group has proved to be effective in 
>> creating a sense of community and belonging. It helps people feel like 
>> they are all part of something important. That is why the military, 
>> sports teams, and other groups use it.
>>
>>  The Pledge of  Allegiance may in truth not directly do anything. But it 
>> is important,  just like singing the Vandal Fight Song at a football game 
>> is  important. It does not directly cause a goal, but it gives a since of 
>> pride and purpose of those that do. The city council does not meet just 
>> to pass zoning codes, it does not meet to just decide policy,  ballparks, 
>> roads, and budgets. Those are just details to a larger  purpose of the 
>> council, which is to serve the people of this great  nation and city.
>>
>>  I REJECT the concept that this nation  should only show loyalty and 
>> commitment to friends and neighbors ONLY  in a time of war or tragedy. Or 
>> as others say, through their votes. We  should show it always. The United 
>> States Flag and the Pledge have deep  meaning to me, and millions of 
>> Americans. To eliminate its recognition  for which we enjoy its 
>> protection and all that came with that  protection, those that died for 
>> it, is wrong in my heart and mind. You  may not agree with that thought, 
>> and that is fine. But I, personally  view the stopping of the pledge 
>> before a US government meeting of  elected US officials as insulting and 
>> I am going to say so.
>>
>>   If you want to call that belief silly, that is fine. You can call those 
>> that say it silly. If members of the council do not want to invest a 
>> whopping two minutes a month I guess that is there right to do so. 
>> However, I strongly disagree and take offense to the action.
>>
>>   If the pledge and the flag is do unimportant, why do people get so 
>> upset when the Confederate flag is honored. Because we all know, that 
>> the MEANING behind a  flag screams our values, our beliefs, and  our 
>> future commitments.
>>
>>   _DJA
>>
>>
>>
>>Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:  And by your logic, 
>>Donovan, those with nothing to hide should not mind
>>opening their bags, vehicles, and homes to searches by the police.  They
>>should welcome warrantless searches of these, as well as monitoring of 
>>their
>>email and phone conversations by the NSA.  If they're loyal, why object to
>>such intrusions?
>>
>>It is silly to think that somehow good governance follows because the 
>>pledge
>>is recited.  Did the City Council's performance improve after they started
>>saying the Pledge at meetings four years ago?  Wasn't the ludicrous 
>>Topless
>>Ordinance enacted within the last four years?  The decision to pour money
>>into the gym?  That was certainly in the last four years.  When former 
>>Mayor
>>Comstock told residents in the neighborhood near the proposed ballfields 
>>to
>>wear earplugs, was that inspired by the Pledge?  Was that responsive
>>governance?
>>
>>I honestly don't know how often the Pledge is recited by the President or
>>Congress, but I don't see them serving our interests with either the war 
>>in
>>Iraq or by running up staggering deficits.  I'd prefer they spend less 
>>time
>>on the pledge, and more time avoiding bone-headed policies.
>>
>>I won't be judging this council on the basis of whether they start their
>>meetings with the Pledge of Alliegance.  I'll judge them on the basis of
>>their responsiveness to the public and by the quality of their decisions. 
>>I
>>am more interested in what they do after the meeting starts than whether
>>they can chant in unison at the beginning.
>>
>>Sunil
>>
>> >From: Donovan Arnold
>> >To: John Dickinson , "'Phil Nisbet'"
>> >
>>,        nchaney at moscow.com
>> >CC: aaronament at moscow.com, vision2020 at moscow.com, johnd at moscow.com,
>> >blambert at ci.moscow.id.us, jweber at ci.moscow.id.us,        "'Linda Pall'"
>> >, bstout at ci.moscow.id.us
>> >Subject: RE: [Vision2020] City Council and the Pledge
>> >Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 23:37:17 -0800 (PST)
>> >
>> >John and Nancy,
>> >
>> >   I want to thank you for having the courage to write Vision2020 and
>> >publicly address the issue of the Pledge of Allegiance.
>> >
>> >   However, I want to say that it saddens my heart and upsets my stomach
>> >that you have removed the pledge of allegiance to our flag from your
>> >bi-monthly meetings. I strongly believe that this is a step in the 
>> >wrong
>> >direction, particularly at this time.
>> >
>> >  Granted, the  pledge is abused, misused, uttered with content,
>> >repetition, and  without meaning to many, and its purpose is lost on 
>> >many
>> >more. But  regardless, the pledge was meant to illustrate to the public
>> >your  loyalty to the people. It is a reminder to the corruptible, to
>> >politicians that forget why they are there after many years of service,
>> >and to those about to cast a vote to spite a political enemy or help a
>> >personal friend, that their vote and loyalty belongs to and for all the
>> >PEOPLE of Moscow, the people of Idaho, and the people of the United
>> >States.
>> >
>> >  With all of the corruption, back room deals, and  dishonest 
>> > politicians
>> >in our mists, I believe it is important that  every elected official 
>> >make
>>a
>> >public statement before casting a vote  that they acknowledge publicly
>>WHY
>> >and for WHO they are casting their  vote.
>> >
>> >  I am sorry to hear, Councilman Dickinson, that saying  the pledge 
>> > twice
>>a
>> >month is too much for you. I for one feel that we  should be honored to
>>say
>> >it at least as much.
>> >
>> >  The irony  here is that we force our children every school day to take
>>a
>> >loyalty  to the nation when they know not the meaning of the word, and
>>the
>> >politicos that need to remind themselves and the people why they are
>> >elected to office, excuse themselves from such commitments.
>> >
>> >   Mayor Cheney, Councilman Dickinson, and the other member of the
>> >council, if you feel your oath to this city is unquestionable, if you
>>have
>> >  unquestionable loyalty to  this nation, if you do not  question your
>> >pride in this nation,  then their should be no  question to your
>> >willingness to say the pledge twice a month that  children say five 
>> >times
>>a
>> >week.
>> >
>> >   Sincerely,
>> >
>> >   Donovan J Arnold
>> >Proud United States Citizen and Moscow Resident
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
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>>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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>>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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