[Vision2020] Aggressive Audit of Poor Par for Course (Molly Ivins)
Phil Nisbet
pcnisbet1 at hotmail.com
Mon Jan 16 18:34:09 PST 2006
Hansen
West Virginia is not Colorado, but it does happen to be in the USA and the
second site I listed was US wide coal mining wages from the Bureau of Labor
Statistics.
>From International Coal Groups Website;
http://www.intlcoal.com/
The Sago Mine Fund has been formed to provide financial support to the
families of these miners and other victims of mining disasters. ICG will
provide an initial contribution of $2.0 million. Anyone wishing to make a
contribution may do so by calling 1-800-811-0441. If you would like to send
donations by mail, please send checks to The Sago Mine Fund, PO Box 1510,
New York, NY 10150.
In addition, the CEO of the company has agreed to match public contributions
dollar for dollar himself.
I realize, Hansen, that all you can do is rely on what you see, read or
hear, but it never hurts to research a little to see if the statements that
you see, read or hear are accurate reflections of the facts.
Mr. Nisbet
>From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
>To: "'Phil Nisbet'" <pcnisbet1 at hotmail.com>
>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Aggressive Audit of Poor Par for Course (Molly
>Ivins)
>Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 18:03:11 -0800
>
>Two things, Mr. Nisbet -
>
>1) Colorado is not West Virginia.
>
>2) All I can report is what I read, hear, and see.
>
>Enough said.
>
>Tom Hansen
>Moscow, Idaho
>
>"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving
>safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in
>sideways, chocolate in one hand, a drink in the other, body thoroughly used
>up, totally worn out and screaming 'WOO HOO. What a ride!'"
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Phil Nisbet [mailto:pcnisbet1 at hotmail.com]
>Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 5:56 PM
>To: thansen at moscow.com
>Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Aggressive Audit of Poor Par for Course (Molly
>Ivins)
>
>Tom
>
>A few facts that you can check up on on the net on Mining Wages;
>
>http://www.coloradomining.org/colomining.html#Mining%20Wages%20and%20Employm
>ent
>
>Colorado Mining jobs average $58, 835 a year.
>
>http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:mh8M_qfbXo0J:www.bls.gov/oes/current/nai
>cs4_212100.htm+Coal+Mining+Wages&hl=en
>
>US wide coal mining wages. You will note that these do not include
>production bonus and any of the other standard industry practices. The
>people who worked at Sago are in the Production trades and were making
>between 34-44 thousand dollars a year.
>
>Not only did the guys working there get their wages, their production
>bonuses, they also had full health benefits and a full insurance in
>addition
>
>to workman’s comp that is paying their families $568 a week and included
>$5,000 in funeral expenses.
>
>Any underground employee with their MSHA cert in place can just about pick
>the mine they want to work at. Skilled workers are in high demand right
>now
>
>in the US. I know this from fact, since my oldest boy has been getting
>offers. The kid has two years surface experience on core rigs and has been
>getting offers of $4100 a month to start underground pulling 20 and 10’s
>with a nice footage bonus as well.
>
>Where anybody would come up with a wage of $700 bimonthly from an
>underground mining job is beyond me. I would have to say its pretty
>unbelievable.
>
>Phil Nisbet
>
>
>
> >From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
> >To: "'Phil Nisbet'" <pcnisbet1 at hotmail.com>, <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
> >CC: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Aggressive Audit of Poor Par for Course (Molly
> >Ivins)
> >Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 17:13:30 -0800
> >
> >I believe it was claimed, during one of the interviews following the Sago
> >Mine tragedy, that underground miners at Sago were taking home a mere
>$700
> >every two weeks.
> >
> >A son of one of the deceased miners said that he promised his father, a
> >week
> >or two before the accident, that he would not go to work in the mine. I
> >certainly don't blame him, considering that I earn more as an IH at UI.
> >
> >That aside. Molly Ivins was NOT criticizing labor at the mine. Her
>anger
> >was aimed at management and its apparent lack of concern for safety.
> >
> >Enough said.
> >
> >Tom Hansen
> >Moscow, Idaho
> >
> >"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving
> >safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in
> >sideways, chocolate in one hand, a drink in the other, body thoroughly
>used
> >up, totally worn out and screaming 'WOO HOO. What a ride!'"
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
>[mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
> >On Behalf Of Phil Nisbet
> >Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 5:02 PM
> >To: kjajmix1 at msn.com
> >Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
> >Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Aggressive Audit of Poor Par for Course (Molly
> >Ivins)
> >
> >Keely
> >
> >I listened to the interviews of the families and that was their general
> >contention. And even assuming that West Virginia were flush with jobs,
>say
> >down at the local Wally World, the pay and the skills and a lot more took
> >the veteran miners underground. The kid who was rescued was the rookie,
> >with only three years on the job, while the rest of the men at Sago that
> >day
> >
> >had decades underground.
> >
> >Entry level wages for a muck stick operator, a surface guy plying a
>shovel
> >are $11 an hour. Guys with years in the business make very good blue
> >collar
> >
> >wages for what is a highly skilled job. They need to know how to drill
> >blast patterns that only shot the seam, how to engineer supports, wire
>the
> >electrical and set up air feeds, run coal and rock cutting equipment,
>keep
> >muckers and tram systems going. And I am sorry, but I do not know of too
> >many people who ever work a mine because they were driven to it by
>economic
> >need. What might have been a reality in the 1900-40 is not one today.
> >
> >I commented to you because I started to read Molly Ivins piece, caught
>her
> >standard diatribe and simply had to say, yetch! My comment is directed
> >exclusively at Ms Ivins. The dangerous papercuts she receives make it
> >perfectly OK I guess to call people stooges for Mining Companies, as if a
> >company wants to see twelve top flight employees killed, its mine crushed
> >by
> >
> >an explosion and millions of dollars lost. Saying that somebody is a
> >stooge
> >
> >for something instantly says that the entity you are stooging for is
> >disreputable and I have read enough of Molly's anti-mining pieces to know
> >that in her High Rise Office space she sees mines as evil nasty places
> >inhabited by the forces of darkness.
> >
> >Molly and her ilk have painted pictures for all of you of Miners and the
> >companies they work for that I frankly can not recognize from real life
> >experiences in mines around the world. From Captain Planet to Molly
>Ivins
> >columns the impression keeps coming that Mining Companies must be forcing
> >people below ground at the point of a gun, working hard to destroy the
> >planet and getting paid by the acre of destruction they work hard to
>assure
> >happens. The image comes equipped with impressions of slave drivers
> >whipping children through darkness lit only by feeble candle flickers.
> >
> >Yes it’s silly to see the poor as somehow the root of corruption. That’s
> >as
> >
> >silly as dehumanizing a whole profession and demonizing its culture. Its
> >as
> >
> >silly as a writer sitting in a high rise office building risking nothing
> >and
> >
> >dragging down more money than the President of the United States of
> >America’s salary yammering about subjects she has no knowledge of using
> >tired clichés to do it and all while twelve families are trying to find
> >solace for their loses.
> >
> >If nothing else, Ivins can always get my blood pressure going. You may
>be
> >right, she has a point somewhere in her piece there. But at what point
> >does
> >
> >a hit piece writer write one too many attacks and low blows? She reached
> >that point with me many years ago.
> >
> >Phil Nisbet
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "keely emerinemix" <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
> > >To: pcnisbet1 at hotmail.com
> > >CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > >Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Aggressive Audit of Poor Par for Course
>(Molly
> > >Ivins)
> > >Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 14:15:33 -0800
> > >
> > >Phil,
> > >
> > >Other than disputing your contention that the miners all loved their
>work
> > >-- I think that you might find that not to be the case if West Virginia
> > >were flush with other employment opportunities -- I really can't talk
> >much
> > >about mining. The point of my post was Ivins' development into the
> > >Bush-encouraged IRS and its picking out and picking on poor people.
> > >
> > >You know a lot more about mining than I do, but I bet you and I could
> >both
> > >agree that perhaps the greatest example of graft, corruption and greed
>in
> > >the United States is not to be found among those families earning just
>at
> > >or below the poverty line -- but they sure make a hell of a target,
>don't
> > >they?
> > >
> > >Take care,
> > >
> > >keely
> > >
> > >
> > >From: "Phil Nisbet" <pcnisbet1 at hotmail.com>
> > >To: kjajmix1 at msn.com
> > >CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > >Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Aggressive Audit of Poor Par for Course
>(Molly
> > >Ivins)
> > >Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 11:31:40 -0800
> > >
> > >Keely
> > >
> > >All I have to do is read Molly's routine that turns Miners into demons
>to
> > >stop bothering with getting further. Her standard is to pick somebody
> >and
> > >dehumanize them while singing a soft song for somebody else.
> > >
> > >MSHA has a dual mission. They have to do mine inspections, but they
>also
> > >are the only ones left who can also carry out the work of the Bureau of
> > >Mines. They are not the enemy.
> > >
> > >The coal companies are trying to mine and sell coal to the power
>industry
> > >for turning out electrical energy. They fight to keep costs down so
>that
> > >the consumers do not pay higher electric bills. They pay their
>workforce
> > >higher wages than most industrial jobs do, for what is a very hazardous
> > >profession. They are not the enemy.
> > >
> > >Miner's love their jobs, which is why they work in an industry with
>such
> > >high hazards. Its a job that has a built in culture very different
>than
> > >that on the street. Its why the older miners would give their self
> > >rescuers to keep the young guy alive. They are not the enemy.
> > >
> > >Not one of the people involved in that tragedy was a stooge. They were
> >all
> >
> > >hands who knew the risks and did a job that others find distasteful or
> > >frightening. They are not demons from hell, bent on destroying the
> > >environment or dollar hungry slime balls uncaring about worker safety.
> >No
> > >doubt Molly typed her report on a computer powered by the coal that
>those
> > >men dug, but instead of celebrating their lives and the gift that their
> > >labor gave her, she terms their culture one of stooges.
> > >
> > >She can never know the generosity of those miners, guys who will give
> >their
> >
> > >last dollar to worthy causes with nothing more than a shrug. She will
> > >never be as close as a team working on a face to any other person she
> > >knows. Molly's worse fear is a paper cut on the job, not the clear
> > >understanding that one day the rock with your name on it is going to
>get
> > >you.
> > >
> > >Mine safety is better now than it has ever been and hopefully it will
>get
> > >better still. But mining will always be a risky job, as anything
> >involving
> >
> > >millions of tons of rock and high explosives and heavy machinery is
>bound
> > >to be. And there will always be men and women who love the work and
>are
> > >willing to do it for the resources that you all enjoy.
> > >
> > >Phil Nisbet
> > >Just another stooge I guess, Molly Ivers told me so.
> > >
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