[Vision2020] FW: License is NOT freedom, dingbat!

Mon Aug 21 14:15:34 PDT 2006

A resend. it did not come back.

James

From: chapandmaize at hotmail.comTo: tonytime at clearwire.net; sunilramalingam at hotmail.comCC: vision2020 at moscow.comSubject: RE: [Vision2020] License is NOT freedom, dingbat!Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 12:40:08 -0700

Tony, Since you want to speak for the unborn I shall also. I would bet that a fetus conceived at some totally inopportune moment in in a woman's life would rather come back at a later date when the mother could give her best to the child. I think it is far more appropriate for the woman in question to make the decision if the time was right.....not some right-winged nut job. I think a child would think the same thing. Your little argument about License versus Freedom is very tricky tony but stupid. Of course the definitions are different or there wouldn't be the two words but the freedom to give License is a freedom just the same. If you want to disallow the ability to give License then you are curtailing freedom. You probably got this little tidbit from a Carl Rove handout. It sounds as dumb assed as he is. James   

> From: tonytime at clearwire.net> To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 08:23:54 -0700> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] License is NOT freedom, dingbat!> > James,> > You ask how I can oppose flag burning and still claim to support freedom. > Answer:  You confuse freedom with license.  Flag burning is no more an > expression of speech than is yelling fire in a crowded theater.  Liberals > always take a ridiculous, anything goes approach to freedom, not recognizing > that with freedom comes responsibility.> > You ask How I can deny marriage to gays and claim to support freedom.  I am > advocating that the institution of marriage not be destroyed by the > licentious behavior of the militant homosexual community.  This is > supportive of the right of the vast majority to not have their institutions > assaulted.> > You ask how I can support the right of unborn Americans not to be savagely > ripped from the womb and trash canned, while claiming to support freedom. > James, I would bet that these innocents, so brutally murdered by > abortionists, would appreciate my support of their freedom to survive and > grow.> > You say that I come across as mean spirited, yet it is you who wishes to > destroy America's foundational institutions.  It is you who would assist > those thoughtless punks who burn the flag.  It is you who callously act as > an accessory to the premeditated snuffing out of innocent life.> > Forget it buddy, keep your confused thinking, lack of proper perspective and > moral bankruptsy away from me.> > Refusing to cow down to those who would enable child killing and flag > burning,   --Tony> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>> Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 7:49 AM> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Celebrate freedom> > > > Tony favors retaining the right to free expression to those who share> > opinions approved of by him and other statists.> >> > Sunil> >> >> >>From: "James Reynolds" <chapandmaize at hotmail.com>> >>To: <kjajmix1 at msn.com>> >>CC: Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Celebrate freedom, kick a flag--burner's > >>ass!> >>Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 07:04:05 -0700> >>> >>This line is what makes your arguments hollow Tony.> >>> >>"Those who consistently favor state control verses local autonomy and> >>freedom, are enemies."> >>> >>How can you advocate all the controls to be placed upon the citizenry (no> >>flags will be burned, no gays will be wed, no women will have abortion> >>etc...) and yet claim to be for freedom. I think you are your own worst> >>enemy. You come across as a mean spirited crass individual who only wishes> >>to lord his will over others.> >>> >>Forget it buddy, keep your controlling ideas away from me.> >>> >>James> >>> >>> >>> >> > From: tonytime at clearwire.net> To: kjajmix1 at msn.com> Date: Mon, 21 Aug> >>2006 01:34:17 -0700> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com> Subject: Re: [Vision2020]> >>Celebrate freedom, kick a flag--burner's ass!> > Yes Keely, you might> >>support my right to free speech, as it is acknowledged > within the Bill > >>of> >>Rights.  That is nice and all, but irrelevant.  Flag > burning is not> >>speech.  It is thoughtless and ungrateful acting out, as I > correctly> >>noted in my original post.> > Those who consistently support policies > >>which> >>would favor America's enemies > are enemies as well.  Those who> >>consistently favor state control verses > local autonomy and freedom, are> >>enemies.  Those who wish to disarm peaceful > citizens, leaving them and> >>their families vulnerable to state tyranny or > civilian crime, are> >>enemies.  Those who advocate the premeditated murder of > the most > >>helpless> >>among us, are enemies.  Those who feel the government is > justified in> >>taking from one American the fruits of his production, and > giving it to> >>another who chooses not to produce, are enemies.> > They of course would> >>prefer not to be regarded as such. Indeed, they may > actually regard> >>themselves as patriots, but the fact remains that their > behavior speaks> >>for itself. Irrelevant apples and oranges comparisons > notwithstanding.> > >> >> >>Still fed up with America's domestic enemies,   -Tony> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > >   --Tony> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "keely emerinemix"> >><kjajmix1 at msn.com>> To: <tonytime at clearwire.net>; <london at moscow.com>> Cc:> >><vision2020 at moscow.com>> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 8:05 PM> Subject:> >>Re: [Vision2020] Celebrate freedom, kick a flag--burner's ass!> > > >> >>Because "subversive hippie" Bill London is my friend, and because Tony > >> >>considers him, me, and others like us to be America's "domestic enemies" >> >> > when we defend the rights of people to do things that are offensive --> >> > > such as "desecrating" a flag, as Bill put it -- I feel compelled to> >>note > > that when we find Tony's speech to be sickening, vituperative,> >>destructive > > and nasty, we still defend his right to say it.> >> >> >>Which, I can't help but think, is a good indicator of one's loyalty to the> >> > > principles of the Constitution guiding one's nation.  Kinda not an> >>enemy > > position in my mind.> >> > keely> >> >> > From: "Tony Simpson"> >><tonytime at clearwire.net>> > To: "Bill London" <london at moscow.com>> > CC:> >>vision2020 at moscow.com> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Celebrate freedom, kick> >>a flag--burner's ass!> > Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 19:28:33 -0700> >> > Leave> >>it to a subversive Hippie like Bill London to praise those who would> >> >>burn the American flag.  Pathetic and loathsome.  Flower child London > >> >>says,> > "If I chose to desecrate a flag by burning it in an open > >>place....> >>so > > what?> > That is free speech."> >> > What pure, unadulterated> >>horseshit!  There is no speech involved in such a> > juvenile, > >>thoughtless,> >>ungrateful and snotnosed activity.  It is> > unpatriotic, typically > >>liberal> >>acting out.  If that is free speech, Billy> > Boy, then it would be free> >>speech for me to walk up to said burner and > > bury> > my boot a foot up> >>his terrorist--enabling ass!> >> > Sick to death of America's domestic> >>enemies,  --TONY> > ----- Original Message -----> > From: "Bill London"> >><london at moscow.com>> > To: "Matt Decker" <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>;> >><kerrybecker6924 at hotmail.com>;> > <sslund at adelphia.net>;> >><vision2020 at moscow.com>> > Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 10:13 AM> >> >>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] West of Paris, Grand Opening> >> >> > > Since > >>you> >>asked.....> > > a few of my reasons why I think a Constitutional amendment> >>against> > > desecrating the flag is stupid....> > > 1. what is the> >>problem?  how many descrated flags are there?> > > 2. if I own the flag > >>and> >>choose to desecrate it by burning it in an open> > > place that will not> >>cause a general fire, so what?  That is free speech.> > > The flag is a> >>symbol, and burning it is Constitutionally-protected.> > > 3. what is> >>desecration?  wearing a flag on the butt of your jeans?> > > wrapping> > >> >>your used car in flags to sell it at a used car lot?  getting a tattoo > >> >> > of> > > flag upside down?  Boy Scouts burning old flags?> > > BL> > >> > >> >  >> >> >> > >> > >> > > ----- Original Message -----> > > From: "Matt Decker"> >><mattd2107 at hotmail.com>> > > To: <london at moscow.com>;> >><kerrybecker6924 at hotmail.com>;> > > <sslund at adelphia.net>;> >><vision2020 at moscow.com>> > > Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 9:21 PM> > >> >>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] West of Paris, Grand Opening> > >> > >> > >> Mr.> >>London,> > >>> > >> And just as they should. Why shouldn't the congress> >>take one day out of> > >> their schedule in order to make flag burning an> >>offense? If they focus> > on> > >> baseball why not on the flag?> > >>> >> >> >> Matt> > >>> > >>> > >> >From: "Bill London" <london at moscow.com>> > >>> >> >To: "kerry becker" <kerrybecker6924 at hotmail.com>,> >> >><sslund at adelphia.net>,> > >> >     <vision2020 at moscow.com>> > >> >Subject:> >>Re: [Vision2020] West of Paris, Grand Opening> > >> >Date: Thu, 17 Aug > >>2006> >>12:33:43 -0700> > >> >> > >> >Yes, it is true that Chicago has (for the> >>reasons Ms. Lund has> > > enumerated)> > >> >banned foie gras, because of> >>the disgusting and inhumane way the birds> > > are> > >> >force-fed to> >>create these inflated livers.  Chicago has not banned > > >> >duck> > >>> >> >liver, only foie gras.> > >> >And as for the reason, it's all a question> >>of values, as the> > Republicans> > >> >say every year when they try to> >>amend the US Constitution to end the> > >> >non-existant problem of people> >>burning US flags.> > >> >BL> > >> >   ----- Original Message -----> > >> >> >>  From: kerry becker> > >> >   To: sslund at adelphia.net ;> >>vision2020 at moscow.com> > >> >   Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 4:56 PM> > >> >> >> >> >   Subject: Re: [Vision2020] West of Paris, Grand Opening> > >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >   This is absurd.  The city> >>of Chicago has taken the time to ban duck> > >> >liver?? - Meanwhile the> >>inner city runs rampant with crime, poverty > > >> >and> > >> >drugs.  Odd> >>really.> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >>> >> >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------->> >> > > -> > >> >> > >> >     From:  "Saundra Lund" <sslund at adelphia.net>> >> >> >> >     To:  <vision2020 at moscow.com>> > >> >     Subject:  Re:> >>[Vision2020] West of Paris, Grand Opening> > >> >     Date:  Wed, 16 Aug> >>2006 15:38:46 -0700> > >> >     >Visionaries:> > >> >     >> > >> >     >I> >>have debated and debated about whether to post this or not, > > >> > but> > >> >> >> > I'd> > >> >hate> > >> >     >for an unsuspecting person to go to West > >> > of> >>Paris only to be> > >> >horrified.> > >> >     >> > >> >     >I was deeply> >>disappointed to see that West of Paris will be> > >> > selling> > >> > >> >foie>> >> > >> >     >gras:> > >> >> >> >http://www.westofparis.com/dinner_menu.html> > >> >     >For that reason> >>alone, I will refuse to patronize the business,> > no> > >> >matter> > >> > >> >> >>     >how delicious other menu items look or sound -- it's a matter of> >> >> >> >ethics for> > >> >     >me.> > >> >     >> > >> >     >The process> >>used to make foie gras is animal cruelty, pure and> > > simple> > >> >> >>:-(((> > >> >     >Fifteen nations (including the UK, the Czech Republic,> >>Denmark,> > >> >Finland,> > >> >     >Germany, Luxembourg, Norway, Poland,> >>Sweden, Switzerland, and> > > Israel> > >> >--> > >> >     >formerly the> >>fourth largest producer in the world) have banned> > >> >force-feeding> >> >> >> >     >birds for foie gras production.  The City of Chicago has > >> >> > banned>> >> > >> > the> > >> >sale of> > >> >     >foie gras, and Philadelphia is> >>likely to follow.  Beginning > > >> > 2012,> > > the> > >> >> >> >production and sale of foie gras from force-fed birds will be> > >> >>banned> > >> >in the> > >> >     >State of California.> > >> >     >> > >>> >> >     >I won't go into the horrifying and graphic details of how foie> >> >> >> > gras> > >> >is> > >> >     >produced, but for those who want to > >> >> > learn> >>more, you can check> > out:> > >> >> >> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foie_gras> > >> >     >You can also Google> >>it, but WARNING:  there's a lot of deeply> > >> >disturbing> > >> >> >> >(although accurate) information and photos you'll find.> > >> >     >> >> >> >> >     >Very disappointing that foie gras will be sold in *any* Moscow>> >> > >> >restaurant> > >> >     >:-(((> > >> >     >> > >> >     >> > >> >> >>  >JMNSHO,> > >> >     >Saundra Lund> > >> >     >Moscow, ID> > >> > > >>  >>> >> > >> >     >The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good>> >> > >> > people> > >> >to do> > >> >     >nothing.> > >> >     >- Edmund> >>Burke> > >> >     >> > >> >     >***** Original material contained herein> >>is Copyright 2006,> > >> > Saundra> > >> >Lund.> > >> >     >Do not copy,> >>forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision> > >> > 2020> > >>> >> >forum> > >> >     >without the express written permission of the> >>author.*****> > >> >     >> > >> >     >-----Original Message-----> > >> >> >>    >From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com> > >>> >> >[mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]> > >> >     >On Behalf Of Daniel> >>Foucachon> > >> >     >Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 7:59 PM> > >> >> >> >To: vision2020 at moscow.com> > >> >     >Subject: [Vision2020] West of> >>Paris, Grand Opening> > >> >     >> > >> >     >  West of > > >> >> >>Paris<http://www.westofparis.com/images/west_paris.gif>> > >> >     >Grand> >>Opening> > >> >     >Friday, August 18th, 2006> > >> >     >> > >> >> >> >Now accepting reservations> > >> >     >> > >> >     >Call (208)> >>882-4279> > >> >     >> > >> >     >www.westofparis.com> >><http://www.westofparis.com/>  | opening at> > > 6:00> > >> >p.m.> > >> >> >>   >> > >> >     >> > >> >> >> >=======================================================> > >> >     >> >>List services made available by First Step Internet,> > >> >     > > >>serving> >>the communities of the Palouse since 1994.> > >> >     >> >>http://www.fsr.net> > >> >     >           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com> >> >> >> >     >=======================================================> > >> > >> >> >  >>> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >>> >> >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------->> >> > > ---> > >> >   Windows Live Spaces is here! It's easy to create your> >>own personal> > >> > Web> > >> >site.> > >> >> > >> >> > >>> >> >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------->> >> > > ---> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >>=======================================================> > >> >    List> >>services made available by First Step Internet,> > >> >    serving the> >>communities of the Palouse since 1994.> > >> >> >>http://www.fsr.net> > >> >             mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com> > >> > >> >> >>   =======================================================> > >>> > >>> >> >> >> >=======================================================> > >> >  List> >>services made available by First Step Internet,> > >> >  serving the> >>communities of the Palouse since 1994.> > >> >> >>http://www.fsr.net> > >> >           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com> > >>> >> >=======================================================> > >>> > >>> >>_________________________________________________________________> > >>> >>Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! 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