[Vision2020] RE: Illegal underage alcohol, anyone?
J Ford
privatejf32 at hotmail.com
Sat Jul 23 21:57:35 PDT 2005
"I am sure that when you got back from the puddle you were fairly miffed
when society deemed you to be not responsible enough to drink. I know I
was. Nothing like being a young buck Sergeant in class A's and being told
that you can not pick up a bottle of wine to take to a get home dinner with
the folks. As with most, at that time I am sure you felt that you had
proven that you were able to handle those things responsibly, as you had
proven while serving your country.
Phil Nisbet "
You're kidding, right? How many brigs were/are full of how many
sailors/soldiers that have come off R&R drunk? How many have spent 10(+)
years for actions that resulted from them taking too much time "handleing
those things respnosibly"? A uniform does not prove an ability to be
responsible. Just ask the many Amerasians we left in country.
No, I am not saying a uniform precludes these types of actions, either. I
am just saying that one does NOT lead to the other - necessarily.
J ;)
>From: "Phil Nisbet" <pcnisbet1 at hotmail.com>
>To: thansen at moscow.com
>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Illegal underage alcohol, anyone?
>Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 19:07:53 -0700
>Tom
>
>Actually I would have expected a better arguement from you.
>
>A right of passage is a spiritual journey to adulthood. As often as not
>such spirit quests are culturally defined. The fact that drinking is
>defined as per the statuate that you cite as solely for those who are of a
>specific age, the age at which majority is attained, gets you why we have
>made drinking by underage drinking to binge levels such a problem. The
>kids are asserting their independence and adulthood prior to the age they
>have been authorized by law to attain it. Over indulgence is simply part
>of the statement.
>
>I am sure that when you got back from the puddle you were fairly miffed
>when society deemed you to be not responsible enough to drink. I know I
>was. Nothing like being a young buck Sergeant in class A's and being told
>that you can not pick up a bottle of wine to take to a get home dinner with
>the folks. As with most, at that time I am sure you felt that you had
>proven that you were able to handle those things responsibly, as you had
>proven while serving your country.
>
>Phil Nisbet
>
>>From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
>>To: "'Phil Nisbet'" <pcnisbet1 at hotmail.com>, <Tbertruss at aol.com>
>>CC: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Illegal underage alcohol, anyone?
>>Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 18:33:59 -0700
>>
>>Quoted from:
>>
>>http://www3.state.id.us/cgi-bin/newidst?sctid=230060004.K
>>
>>"TITLE 23
>>ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES
>>CHAPTER 6
>>PENAL PROVISIONS
>>
>> 23-604. MINORS -- PURCHASE, CONSUMPTION OR POSSESSION PROHIBITED.
>>Any
>>person under twenty-one (21) years of age who shall purchase, attempt to
>>purchase, or otherwise consume or possess any alcohol beverage, including
>>any distilled spirits, beer or wine, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and
>>shall be punished according to the schedule set out in section 18-1502,
>>Idaho Code."
>>
>>Nope. Nothing about any "right of passage" or "It's OK if it ain't binge
>>drinking" there. As discussed earlier, alcoholic beverages are simply not
>>permitted in the ASUI Kibbie Activity Center.
>>
>>I certainly expected a stronger argument than that form you, Mr. Nisbet.
>>
>>If it's wrong, it's wrong.
>>
>>Take care, Moscow.
>>
>>Tom Hansen
>>
>>
>>"I can testify to the fact that although Phil is a Republican, he is a
>>decent man, and fun to have a beer with."
>>
>>- Donovan J Arnold (July 11, 2005)
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
>>On Behalf Of Phil Nisbet
>>Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 5:00 PM
>>To: Tbertruss at aol.com
>>Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Illegal underage alcohol, anyone?
>>
>>Ted
>>
>>You are coming on like Ms Nation's at a temperence party. Please, put the
>>hatchet down.
>>
>>Sips of wine are not binge drinking.
>>
>>Europe has less of a problem than we do with wine and beer and other
>>alcohol
>>related problems. They have less of a problem because they do not deal
>>with
>>it as we do. The culture teaches children to deal with drink from an
>>early
>>age with things like a small amount of beer or wine in soda water to form
>>a
>>spritizer.
>>
>>We bar kids from trying or having any liqour. As a consequence its a
>>substance that having been denied by authority, kids tend to binge on when
>>they can snag some. Those same kids then get free of mom and dad and head
>>off to the nearest kegger where the try to drink the whole thing. Thats
>>because we have made booze a right of passage.
>>
>>If it did not have that right of passage standard, it would not be treated
>>as it is in our society. If it does not prove your adulthood, why get
>>bent
>>beyond recognition every other night?
>>
>>As for drugs, are you preaching toleration or total removal of all mind
>>altering substances? Is this an arguement against booze or one for other
>>controled materials?
>>
>>Phil Nisbet
>>
>> >From: Tbertruss at aol.com
>> >To: pcnisbet1 at hotmail.com, vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >Subject: [Vision2020] Illegal underage alcohol, anyone?
>> >Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 20:15:29 EDT
>> >
>> >
>> >Phil et. al.
>> >
>> >In 1998, "5.1 million youth" (age 12-20) "were binge drinkers."
>> >
>> >Fact from this link:
>> >
>> >http://www.health.org/govpubs/rpo990/
>> >
>> >It is astonishing to observe the "pass" that alcohol use receives in our
>> >culture in regard to its use or promotion in cases where it is illegal.
>> >
>> >In terms of advertising alcohol use to youth, overlooking or excusing
>> >parents
>> >who have alcohol in their homes that is easily accessed by youth, or the
>> >legal system offering penalties for those who supply alcohol to minors
>>that
>> >make a
>> >mockery of the so called "War On Drugs," alcohol is tolerated and even
>> >promoted when the facts are indisputable that it damages the lives of
>>youth
>> >more
>> >than all other drug use combined!
>> >
>> >It is well known that underage alcohol abuse kills more youth in
>>vehicular
>> >crashes than are killed in any circumstance by all other drugs combined,
>> >but
>> >consider the impact of alcohol abuse among underage drinkers for other
>> >types of
>> >violent crime:
>> >
>> >http://camy.org/factsheets/index.php?FactsheetID=13
>> >
>> >Quote below from link above:
>> >
>> >"[I]ndividuals under the age of 21 commit 45 percent of rapes, 44
>>percent
>> >of
>> >robberies, and 37 percent of other assaults,7 and it is estimated that
>>50
>> >percent of violent crime is alcohol-related8 (Reducing Underage
>>Drinking,
>> >61)."
>> >
>> >Consider the NBA's family friendly message that they oppose drug
>>use/abuse.
>> >Really? Then why do NBA games watched by millions of underage viewers
>> >feature
>> >advertising worth millions of dollars aimed at youth to promote alcohol
>> >use?
>> >
>> >http://camy.org/factsheets/index.php?FactsheetID=1
>> >
>> >Quote below from link above:
>> >
>> >"The Center on Alcohol Marketing and Youth found that, from 2001 though
>> >2003,
>> >youth in the United States were 96 times more likely per capita to see
>>an
>> >ad
>> >promoting alcohol than an industry ad discouraging underage drinking.9
>>In
>> >fact, compared to underage youth, adults age 21 and over were nearly
>>twice
>> >as
>> >likely per capita to see advertising discouraging underage drinking.10"
>> >
>> >I don't care what group, religious or not, is sponsoring an event that
>>is
>> >offering alcohol to minors, or whether the event is on private property,
>>or
>> >how
>> >little alcohol is being offered. Are we to excuse the offering of a
>>drug
>> >to
>> >youth, by adults who supposedly have the best interests of the youth in
>> >mind,
>> >that is the most likely drug by a wide margin to be the drug that youth
>> >abuse
>> >leading to death, injury, sexual assault, assault and battery, and
>>violent
>> >crime
>> >in general? Isn't it credible to assume that offering alcohol in a
>> >religious
>> >service to minors sends a signal that minors drinking alcohol is
>>excusable
>> >on
>> >religious grounds? And how might this "endorsement" impact a youth
>>offered
>> >alcohol in other contexts, at a party by their peers, or sneaking some
>> >liquor
>> >from their parents stock, or driving on the back roads of Latah County
>>with
>> >a
>> >six pack or two?
>> >
>> >What if a religious group offered a harmless amount of methamphetamine
>>to
>> >minors in a religious service? Very few would excuse this conduct, if
>> >anyone,
>> >correct? And how many youth are involved in methamphetamine related
>>abuse
>> >incidents, relative to alcohol abuse related incidents? Do the facts of
>> >the
>> >consequences of drug abuse of various kinds motivate our approach to
>> >mitigating the
>> >harm from drug abuse across all segments of society, or do the biases of
>> >those
>> >who wish to keep their pet drug of choice (alcohol, in this case)
>> >acceptable,
>> >or economically profitable, prejudicially influence
>>social/legal/economic
>> >policy?
>> >
>> >"Alcohol is by far the most used and abused drug among America’s
>> >teenagers.
>> >Â According to a national survey, nearly one third (31.5%) of all high
>> >school
>> >students reported hazardous drinking (5+ drinks in one setting) during
>>the
>> >30
>> >days preceding the survey.3"
>> >
>> >Above quote from this source:
>> >
>> >http://www.marininstitute.org/Youth/alcohol_youth.htm#_edn6
>> >
>> >Source for info below:
>> >
>> >http://www.health.org/govpubs/rpo990/
>> >
>> >** Peer pressure begins early. One-third of 4th graders and more than
>>half
>> >of
>> >6th graders say they have been pressured by friends to drink alcohol.1
>> >
>> >** On average, young people begin drinking at about age 13,2 but some
>>start
>> >even younger. By the time they are high school seniors, more than 80
>> >percent
>> >have used alcohol and approximately 64 percent have been drunk. 3 When
>> >adolescents move on to college, they bring their drinking habits with
>>them:
>> >more than
>> >40 percent of college students are binge drinkers.4
>> >
>> >** In 1998, 10.4 million current drinkers were under legal age (age
>>12-20).
>> >Of these, 5.1 million were binge drinkers, including 2.3 million heavy
>> >drinkers.5
>> >----------------------------
>> >
>> >Vision2020 Post by Ted Moffett
>>
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>>
>
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