[Vision2020] Members of the Corps,
or Message from a Christ Church Wife
Joan Opyr
auntiestablishment at hotmail.com
Sun Feb 13 09:16:14 PST 2005
Jenni Burns has perfectly summarized all of the reasons why, 20 years ago, I wanted to join the Marine Corps:
1) The safety and comfort of knowing my place in the hierarchy;
2) The feeling of importance, the sense of self-worth and belonging;
3) Being part of something larger than myself; and
4) The really cool uniform.
You think I'm joking, but I'm not.
Joan Opyr/Auntie Establishment
PS: I wouldn't want the final responsibility for all decision made in my family. I'd prefer that blame, credit, and terrible burdens were all equally shared.
PPS: I could've made Major. I'm sure of it.
----- Original Message -----
From: Christian Burns
Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 1:29 AM
To: keely emerinemix
Cc: debismith at moscow.com; Vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Message from a Christ Church Wife
Hello Visionaries, this is Christian Burns' wife Jenni Burns. I just
want to say that I believe my husband has a great view of what
submission is-Christ is the head of the Church just as the man is the
head of the wife, and Christ was servant of all. Christian and I have
been married for three years and I have never been so loved and valued
and served in my entire life. He values me and it heals the wounds of
rejection that others have inflicted. He is a gentle and loving man
whom I submit to willingly because I trust him fully with my heart
knowing that he understands his responsibility as my protector.
We are a team and we submit ourselves to one another. He looks for my
imput and holds my thoughts in high esteem. He waits to confer with
me before he makes decisions and he wont move ahead until he knows
that I feel safe. But as a wife I know that he is the final word and
I trust him even though I might not feel like he's taking the right
turn sometimes because I know that the responsibility for the outcome
of our family weighs heavily upon his shoulders.
That is my two cents, I am not a beat down wife who has no clue
because I cant think for myself. Submitting to my husband has caused
me to feel secure and confident in being who God has called me to be.
I believe the truth is that people who have issue with the topic of
submission is fear to fully trust yourself into another's ability to
love or reject-but isn't that what Christ asks from us? to trust Him
fully not knowing the outcome?
A devoted wife, Jenni Burns
ps. Chris has read all the responses and will respond when he has time.
On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 06:42:58 -0800, keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com> wrote:
> Christian Burns needs to avail himself of some good Biblical teaching on the
> issue of submission, headship and hierarchy, although I'm afraid he'll be
> sorely disappointed that the privilege of maleness is a result of the Fall
> and not God's original intention for humankind. It seems to have worked out
> so well for him, and of course that's the measure of all things -- how well
> it works for us, others be damned.
>
> Which is the Biblical point of submission. Believers are to submit to one
> another, period. That means going out for Chinese with my friend when it's
> her preference, even if I want Mexican, because she's more important to me
> than my love of carne asada. The bigger picture: it means concern for
> everyone around me, knowing that their Biblical submission will result in
> concern for me, too. And in this case, it means that a husband who would
> see his wife in agony because of a church situation and yet still claim male
> privilege to stand his ground is being grossly unloving and unBiblical and
> is unworthy of defense by a brother in the Lord. I submit to my husband --
> and he to me -- not because of his maleness, but because of his humanness,
> just as I would submit to everyone else around me. The church is not an old
> boys network -- or at least that wasn't the intention -- and the "suck it up
> and submit, sister" bit is galling.
>
> And by the way, Mr. Burns, I'm sure Martin Luther would be amused at your
> stern rebuke about God never rewarding a spirit of division. It's good to
> separate from the toxic things in life by proclaiming truth, which is a
> spirit of devotion to Christ. I can't help but think that more devotion to
> Him would result in a church that looks radically different from what you
> appear to be used to, although it'd sure be a lot less fun for the guys . .
> .
>
> your local Biblical feminist and submissive wife, sister, friend and
> neighbor,
>
> keely emerine mix
>
> .
>
> From: debismith at moscow.com
> To: Vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Message from a Christ Church Wife
> Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 00:06:52 -0800
>
> OK, I have now seen something much more offensive than spitting or "one
> nostril
> blowing". Christian burns left me needing shower or three. A wife's
> calling, like it or
> not, is supporting her husband? A mandate from God to submit? My husband was
> rolling on the floor laughing!!!!! My fully functional, self-supporting,
> adult children let
> me know this bozo needs some therapy!! (Though out of Moscow, they both
> subscribe to v2020). Christian "Burns" indeed!!! What a piece of idiocy!!
> In the spirit
> of charity, however, I want "Christian " to know that whatever blows his
> skirt up is fine
> by me.....
> Debi
>
> Dear ChristChurch Wife,
>
> I hear what you are saying. I don't know Doug Wilson, never met him. I
> do not doubt how you feel.
>
> I just wanted to offer some thoughts that I had while reading your
> post. I am speaking as a Christian to another Christian, I know this
> will sound insensitive to most people.
>
> First of all I wanted to say how sorry I am for the state of your
> marriage. You and your husband lack unity. The goal of marriage is
> intimacy, and you have this huge wedge between you.
>
> I have been a part of a church with a strong leader that has hurt
> people, friends of mine. Caused offence and they took the bait of the
> enemy and left the church. It was hard to witness, it didn't have to
> go down like it did. People harbor bitterness and it gives a place for
> the enemy to thrive in their lives and family. My heart breaks for
> them. Some have come through all right, others are rotting from the
> inside out.
>
> I have also been part of churches with weak leaders. They have a whole
> other set of issues. I have seen families destroyed because people
> were not held accountable for sin.
>
> My point is that you have a mandate from God as a wife and mother. It
> is not to convince your husband that he is wrong in how he is leading
> your family. Your calling whether you like it or not is to support
> your husband. Submit to him as the Church is to submit to Christ. Your
> husband is called to submit himself to Christ.
>
> If you continue to press for your family to leave by pointing out the
> faults of those in your church, you will destroy your family, not save
> it. I know that you might disagree with that statement but I would
> challenge you to look in scripture.
>
> My wife thinks that your focus needs to me coming into unity with your
> husband, not trying to get him to heed your words. Let him lead,
> support him.
>
> I am also going to mention your children. I don't know how old they
> are or how many you have. But if they feel that bitterness in you
> towards others, it will effect them in a bad way.
>
> Are you going outside of your husbands covering and getting together
> with others to share your concerns about the church? Stop it, resolve
> that God has placed your family where it is and that He never rewards
> a spirit of division.
>
> If you want to talk to my wife further about her thoughts, email me
> and I will give you her cell phone number. She said that you can talk
> to her more about your situation.
>
> And I may be ridiculed for posting this, but I really felt that I needed to.
>
> Christian Burns
>
> On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 19:22:01 -0800 (PST), ChristChurch Wife
> <christchurchwife at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Dear Visionaries,
> >
> > I am a Christ Church wife. Of the many of things I could write, I
> decided
> > in the end that what I’m about to write is the most important. I
> realize
> > there’s no reason why you should trust an anonymous posting like
> mine but
> > it's my hope that somehow you'll decide to read it anyway.
> >
> > It’s amazing how God has been so merciful to Christ Church/Trinity
> members
> > through this forum. Many of you have been such a comfort to me and you
> > don’t even know it. It’s hard to belong to a church whose
> pastor treats
> > people the way Doug Wilson does, especially those who oppose him
> publicly.
> > No, it’s not hard, I take that back. It’s horrible.
> It’s become a
> > nightmare. It’s shame and outrage and grief that no amount of
> tears can
> > wash away. Part of me wants to write a thousand more words but I
> won’t
> > waste your time. Why? Because of the glaring question that logically
> > follows: â€Å"Then why don’t you leave that church?†I'm
> working on it as
> > hard as I can. Some day I will get out but when I leave I refuse to go
> > alone. I will be taking my family with me. I will not allow my marriage
> to
> > be destroyed or my children split apart in the process. Slowly and
> > consistently my husband has begun to heed the wo! rds I speak to him
> > regarding Christ Church. The day is coming when his eyes will be fully
> open
> > and his faith will lead the way. That is the day we’ll leave. I
> believe
> > that with all my heart. It's coming. But even then, the road to
> recovery
> > will be long. That's okay. I'm not deceived. My marriage will survive
> and
> > we'll be fine again someday. Nobody said that only husbands are
> responsible
> > to protect their families. Wives are called to do the same. Mine is also
> a
> > rescue and recovery mission and you, on this forum, have been an
> incredible
> > blessing in this long, difficult process.
> >
> > My reason for posting today is because I want to say thank you. With all
> my
> > heart I thank you for how you do your best to help open the eyes of
> Christ
> > Church/Trinity people. (I dislike that word "Kirkers.") Thank you for the
> > insight and careful observations you've brought to issue after issue
> > concerning Christ Church. I especially appreciate how determined you are
> in
> > your resolve to speak forth. Thank you for your example of courage, for
> > exposing the tactics of Doug Wilson and refuting them. For remaining
> > vigilant no matter how Christ Church leaders respond to you. Thank you
> for
> > the humorous statements that have literally made my day so many times.
> > It’s amazing how much strength one can get from humor. Thank you
> for all
> > the personal time you've given in posting. And most of all, thank you
> for
> > your compassion for Christ Church wives and children and even our
> husbands
> > that has comforted me time and time again. It’s been overwhelming.
> >
> > I've learned so much about people from Vision 2020. Your service to the
> > Palouse is unquestionable. People who don't even know me care about me
> and
> > in their own way have tried to help me. My mind has been stretched. My
> > world has perspectives it never had before. I’ve gained more
> understanding
> > and compassion for others in ways that have made me a far better person.
> I
> > don't have to agree with everything written on a post to be able to say
> > thank you for writing it. I see in you a true desire to make the Palouse
> a
> > better place to live. I see individuals trying and one by one
> it’s
> > working. Thank you. Thank you with all my heart for what you’ve
> done for
> > me as a person and Christian.
> >
> > If I may, I would like to say a special thanks to Tom Hansen for his "Not
> on
> > the Palouse" site. God only knows how many people have been spared the
> > grief I've known because of it. For their lives sake, I thank you.
> >
> > Because the Daily News, understandably, will not accept anonymous letters
> > I’d also like to publicly thank Vera White for her brave column.
> She has
> > withstood the vehemence of Wilson's world for years and done it with
> > remarkable grace. She never ceases to amaze me with her lion's heart
> Vera's
> > example of courage and integrity in journalism has inspired me more than
> > she’ll ever know. Even if I don't agree with every word she says,
> she's
> > my hero. Thank you, Vera. Thank you forever.
> >
> > Thank you, Vision 2020, for allowing me to post this.
> >
> > With deepest gratitude and respect,
> > A Christ Church wife
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'
> >
> >
> > _____________________________________________________
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > http://www.fsr.net
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >
> ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
> >
> >
> >
>
> _____________________________________________________
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
>
> _____________________________________________________
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
>
> _____________________________________________________
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
>
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