[Vision2020] Public prayer on public money

[Donovan Arnold]

Keely,

Actually, the whole point of prayer before public
meetings is to guide leaders in the right direction. I
know for fact both the Catholic and Native American
prayers specifically say that.

Prayer before important legislative meeting was placed
there not because people missed church or to irritate
non-believers. It was put there in the hopes that our
leaders will make the appropriate decisions. 



Donovan J Arnold



--- keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com> wrote:

> Donovan, I don't believe there's a lot of evidence
> to confirm that 
> government bodies are serious about seeking the Lord
> in their every 
> deliberation and so that's why they start out with
> prayer, but you're 
> entitled to your view, of course.  Your contention
> that I treat prayer and 
> sex similarly is really too silly for me to comment
> further on, tempting 
> though it may be.
> 
> keely
> 
> 
> From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
> To: keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com>,
> joanopyr at earthlink.net,  
> vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Public prayer on public
> money
> Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 16:14:30 -0700 (PDT)
> 
> Keely,
> 
> Why you insist upon treating public prayer in the
> same
> category as sex, "it is fine as long as it is done
> in
> private and in a manner that does not offend
> anyone",
> is beyond me.
> 
> If you truly are religious, or spiritual etc, you
> would understand how important seeking God's
> guidance
> is when making important decisions that impact the
> welfare of the community.
> 
> You can separate religion from public events, but
> prayer is NOT religion, nor is it forcing people to
> pray or pray in a particular manner, it is simply
> allowing time for people to seek guidance from their
> God or Gods before doing something important. Why do
> you oppose this? They are NOT implementing policy
> into
> their laws like no meat on Sundays or women shall
> obey
> her husband at all times. Why should people be
> prevented from practicing their faith because others
> might be offended? What harm is caused by the
> unbeliever to pause for one minute while others
> fulfill their commitment to their creator and ask
> for
> guidance?
> 
> Ask your God(s) if He wants the government to deny
> people a moment with Him/Her when they need Him/Her?
> 
> Donovan J Arnold
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com> wrote:
> 
>  > Donovan,
>  >
>  > I promise that if I see you and friends praying
>  > quietly on the street
>  > corner, I won't beat you up or anything, and I'm
> not
>  > trying to suggest that
>  > the way I do ANYTHING is the only right way.
>  >
>  > Obviously a church worship service or prayer
> meeting
>  > or Bible study is not
>  > private.  It involves two or more people, and,
>  > therefore, the prayer is
>  > "public" prayer.  That really wasn't what I was
>  > talking about, though.   I'm
>  > sorry you weren't able to understand that I was
>  > writing in the context of
>  > public prayer in civic circumstances where the
>  > business at hand is not
>  > "religious" and the participants are likely of
>  > different faiths.   And
>  > before you jump all over me for separating
> religion
>  > from other stuff, try to
>  > remember that it's precisely because faith is so
>  > important to me that I
>  > believe it shouldn't be displayed at convenient
> or
>  > scheduled times, but
>  > instead fill us with righteousness that shows
>  > through our every action.
>  >
>  > I'm guessing that you know that, and so it might
> be
>  > good for you to announce
>  > in public your disagreement with everything I
> write,
>  > in case anyone is under
>  > the impression that we're actually discussing
>  > something.
>  >
>  > keely
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > From: Donovan Arnold
> <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
>  > To: keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com>,
>  > joanopyr at earthlink.net,
>  > vision2020 at moscow.com
>  > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Public prayer on public
>  > money
>  > Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 14:14:57 -0700 (PDT)
>  >
>  > Keely,
>  >
>  > You wrote:
>  >
>  > "It isn't necessary for me to stop, announce that
>  > it's
>  > time to pray, and then recite some invocation. 
> It
>  > also isn't, according to Christ, desireable."
>  >
>  > The Bible disagrees with your testimony:
>  >
>  > ‘Where two or more are gathered in my name there
> am
>  > I
>  > in the midst of them.’(Matthew 18:20)
>  >
>  > If people are going to meet and pray together,
> they
>  > need to announce it, either by word of mouth or
> in
>  > written text.
>  >
>  > Further, God commands that we worship Him at all
>  > times, especially when we make important
> decisions
>  > in
>  > life that impact others.
>  >
>  > I know God is there when I go to Church or pray
> with
>  > groups of people in a public or private location.
>  > For
>  > others to try and stop me is futile. Praying in
>  > public
>  > is not the same as praying for show. Jesus Christ
>  > prayed in public with others.
>  >
>  > I think it is great that you have conversations
> with
>  > God. However, to state that others must pray by
>  > themselves in only a conversational manner I
> think
>  > is
>  > wrong. There are many different ways and reasons
> to
>  > pray, to name a few:
>  >
>  > 1: To talk to God and build a personal
> relationship
>  > 2: For admiration and adoration of your creator
>  > 3: To ask for His strength to fulfill his will
>  >
>  > That you require others to pray YOUR WAY, I think
> is
>  > more of an establishment of a religion than just
>  > allowing people to worship in a manner they
> believe
>  > God has commanded them to do.
>  >
>  > Donovan J Arnold
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > --- keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com> wrote:
>  >
>  >  > I'm wondering if maybe the arguments we've
> seen,
>  >  > both for and against civic,
>  >  > public prayer, miss the point.
>  >  >
>  >  > I pray many, many times during the day, and if
>  > you
>  >  > were with me, you likely
>  >  > wouldn't have any idea when.  Why?  Because my
>  >  > prayers are conversational,
>  >  > directed to a God with whom I have
> relationship
>  > by
> 
=== message truncated ===

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