[Vision2020] Reasoning and the vote (was Bush and war and Iraq)

Mon Nov 1 06:56:51 PST 2004

Joan, et al.,

The people of our country are some of the least informed people on the planet. Some survey said that only 3 in 10 people really know what is going on. I know that the people in most of Europe and Canada know much more about us than we do them. They seem to stay up on what is happening not only in their country but the rest of the world.

I believe that I recently heard that 62% of the Bush voters still think that Saddam Hussein was responsible for 9/11. That is absolutely unbelievable that people are so poorly informed and are voting for our future. 

I have 2 brothers and 2 sons who are voting republican and when I try to change their minds they get very upset with me. Don't confuse them with the facts. I guess we'll have to put up with this and hope for the best. The problem comes when sometime after the election they find out the facts and will then say, "I wish I knew this before I voted". 

Dick Schmidt
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Joan Opyr 
  To: Vision2020 Moscow 
  Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 10:14 PM
  Subject: [Vision2020] Reasoning and the vote (was Bush and war and Iraq)

  Ted, Dick, Pat, et al.,

  You know what frightens me?  Voters like my 82 year-old grandmother.  She voted early on Friday, and she voted for Bush.  Why?  Because her 81 year-old boyfriend, Mr. Royall Beavers (yes, that's his real name) flew on a bomber in WWII and, based on his Birdseye frozen war expertise, he advised her that "you don't change horses in mid-war."  Now, never mind the mixed metaphor; the important thing is that my grandmother cites this as her one-and-only reason for voting for George Bush.  She didn't watch the debates.  She didn't read the newspaper -- she never does except for the obituaries and the Family Circus.  She didn't watch any political programming on Fox, or CNN, or PBS.  She also didn't have any idea who she was going to vote for until Royall called her on Thursday night and they reminisced about their high school days, 1937 to 1940, and the time he spent on that WWII bomber.

  My grandmother votes in every election.  She's voted for Republicans, and she's voted for Democrats.  She voted for Jimmy Carter in 1976 because he was a Southern Baptist.  She voted for Ronald Reagan in 1984 because he was "better looking" than Walter Mondale.  Ditto for George H. W. Bush over Michael Dukakis (who had the added disadvantages of being both short and Greek).  She voted for Bill Clinton, twice.  Why?  The Southern Baptist thing again; oh, and because she thought he was "so handsome," even if that Yankee wife of his was so stuck up she couldn't stand her.  In 2000, she picked Bush over Al Gore because she liked Laura and she suspected that Tipper dyed her hair.  (The shame!)  

  Had John Edwards been at the top of the ticket this time around, I know that my grandmother would have been torn.  She voted for him in the primaries (she's a registered Democrat) because "he's from North Carolina."  Had they been in the running, my grandmother would have voted for Clay Aiken or Andy Griffith or our state bird, the cardinal, for the exactly same reason

  Now, dear Visionaries, why am I subjecting you to this history of my grandmother's highly subjective voting record?  BECAUSE SOMETIMES PEOPLE MAKE NO SENSE.  THEY ARE NOT RATIONAL.  THEY DON'T LOOK AT THE FACTS, THEY DON'T WEIGH THE OPTIONS, AND THEY DO NOT MAKE REASONED CHOICES.  THEY CLOSE THEIR EYES AND PULL THE TRIGGER.  For nearly sixty years now, my grandmother's participation in the democratic process has consisted of playing pin the tail on the candidate.  This is the price of universal enfranchisement, and while I am generally willing to pay it, it does occasionally seem a little bit steep.  This year in particular, if I could have had my grandmother (not to mention Mr. Royall Beavers) declared non compos mentis, I'd have put them in a home with a collection of Matlock videos and an out-of-date calendar and not let them out until November the 3rd.  Maybe.

  Oy.

  Joan Opyr/Auntie Establishment

  PS: Some reasons to change horses in the middle of a war:  
  1) Your horse is drowning.  
  2) People keep shooting you off it.  
  3) The glue factory called.
  4) Your horse is defective, all ass and no head.

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Tbertruss at aol.com
    Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 10:17 AM
    To: dickschmidt at moscow.com; rwiza at hotmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
    Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Bush and War with Iraq

    Dick et. al.

    The amazing fact is, there are die hard Bush supporters who will admit that Bush and his administration "lied" about some of the reasons for going to war in Iraq, yet they will still support him, believing the war in Iraq was still a good idea for other reasons, and that it has made America safer.

    I think one argument that might make some Bush supporters question their loyalty is to make the case that the war in Iraq has actually increased support for anti-American terrorism in the Islamic world, making America less safe.

    However, what is revealing is how little the moods and opinions of the Islamic world are given any attention by the presidential candidates, demonstrating the insular, "we are the center of the world" attitude that is part of the reason the US is so hated in many parts of the world.

    I've argued with hard line militarists who want to solve the terrorism problem with military force, and I pointed out we would need to bomb and/or invade numerous countries with a total population of over a billion people to wipe out all the Islamic world's recruiting for Al Quada style terrorism.

    Better tighten your wallets, this could get expensive, though investment in military sector stocks might help.

    Ted Moffett

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