[Vision2020] Leaving a few children behind
LuJane Nisse publisher
lujane at lataheagle.com
Sat Jul 24 11:58:51 PDT 2004
I really think you are taking this way too personal. I didn't see she
attacked anyone... just a program.
-----Original Message-----
From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
[mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]On Behalf Of Donovan Arnold
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 8:13 PM
To: kjajmix1 at msn.com; pkraut at moscow.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Leaving a few children behind
Keely,
I never asked for your support, nor is it important that I obtain it. I am
tired of her racist and hurtful remarks. I am going to rip into her like she
does minorities, gays, and the poor. When she attacks Immigrants and
Mexicans, that is real people she is attacking, and people I went to college
with and even called brother. I will do the same back. If using logic got
her to stop, don't you think she would have never started in the first
place? Sorry, but as long she attacks my friends, family, and others on
here, personally or as a group, I will sink to her level and do the same
back. It is the only language she obviously understands. So that is the
language I speak to her with.
Take Care,
Donovan J Arnold
>From: "keely emerinemix" <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
>To: <pkraut at moscow.com>,<vision2020 at moscow.com>,"Donovan Arnold"
><donovanarnold at hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Leaving a few children behind
>Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 20:00:58 -0700
>
>Donovan, that's utterly inappropriate. I may disagree with Pat's ideas,
>but I won't support your attack against her. You aren't enhancing your
>argument at all. Stop it.
>
>keely
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Donovan Arnold
> To: pkraut at moscow.com ; vision2020 at moscow.com
> Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 7:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Leaving a few children behind
>
>
> Yeah, see when you live off the taxpayer like Pat does, you have lots of
> time to read books. Other people are too busy doing things like working
>to
> pay the taxes to run the programs that Pat enjoys off your hard labor.
>Then
> of course you get to hear about how all the poor people and immigrates
>that
> hurt Pat because she could be even more lazy if they weren't sucking
>funds
> from the programs she benefits from.
>
> Donovan J Arnold
>
>
> >From: "Pat Kraut" <pkraut at moscow.com>
> >To: "vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Leaving a few children behind
> >Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 23:36:20 -0700
> >
> >Well, that puts you a book behind because I have already read that
>book! I
> >already said on this site that I like to read all sides of an issue. I
>did
> >like some parts and thought in other parts she cannot think
> >clearly...thought the same thing about Savage's book.
> >Tell me something...do you all really think that it is necessary to put
> >personal information about someone on this site? This really is fully
> >agreeable to all of you? Or is it just those who don't agree with you?
>I am
> >aware that most of you must really know each other so no longer
>question
> >anything that is said by one of you. I am however surprised that
>educated,
> >thinking people would be so quick to attack personally someone who just
> >does
> >not agree with you.
> >Pat
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Carl Westberg" <carlwestberg846 at hotmail.com>
> >To: <pkraut at moscow.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 7:21 AM
> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Leaving a few children behind
> >
> >
> > > Wow, Pat. You manage to label migrant workers "ingrates", you call
> >Keely
> >a
> > > "twit", and heartily recommend we read "The Enemy Within" by ultra
> > > right-winger Michael Savage. I tell you what, Pat. I'll read that
>if
> >you
> > > read "Shrub" by Molly Ivins. Deal?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Carl Westberg Jr.
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Pat Kraut" <pkraut at moscow.com>
> > > >To: "vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > > >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Leaving a few children behind
> > > >Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 23:53:48 -0700
> > > >
> > > >Of all the silly answers...I am poor, twit! The only bitterness I
>feel
> >is
> > > >that of a regular tax payer who is having their hardearned pay
>sucked
> >into
> > > >programs for the 'poor' with no end in sight. I can assure you
>there
> >are
> > > >many more programs to 'help' the poor (that do not much more than
>keep
> >them
> > > >poor) than there is for the middle class barely able to make ends
>meet
> >for
> > > >helping those poor souls. As to my faith, your comments are the
>ones
> >of
> > > >someone who knows nothing about it. I use the word ingrate because
>any
> >time
> > > >these migrant workers protest anything they wave the Mexican flag
>in
> >our
> > > >faces. Well, go back to Mexico if its so great! Try reading "The
>Enemy
> > > >Within" by Donald Savage. You just might learn something to make
>you
> >think
> > > >more deeply about this subject. It is as always multi-faceted.
> > > >PK
> > > >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Leaving a few children behind
> > > >
> > > > Diving in as someone who spent 1990-2001 working with Mexican
> >immigrants
> > > >in Western Washington, many of whom were considered migrant
> >agricultural
> > > >workers by the government . . .
> > > >
> > > > I am sad but not surprised that this program would be cut. I am
>sad
> >but
> > > >not surprised that Ms. Kraut would voice her support of cutting
> >programs
> > > >that benefit migrant farmworker families. I am sad and astonished
>that
> >Ms.
> > > >Kraut would say the things she says without apparent shame, and I
>trust
> > > >that she receives this in the spirit in which I intend it:
> > > >
> > > > Pat, how hard a heart can you have while still professing to
>worship
> > > >God?
> > > >
> > > > Given that you are almost assuredly a citizen of the United
>States,
> >are
> > > >obviously literate, very likely didn't grow up in a family of
> >illiterate
> > > >and perhaps undocumented migrant farmworkers, and seem to have
>grasped
> >a
> > > >kernel of education from the husks of poverty, it is beyond my
> > > >comprehension how any dire circumstances of your youth could
>compare
> >with
> > > >those experienced by the thousands and thousands of children who
>would
> >have
> > > >benefited from this program. You have my sympathy for whatever
> >hardships
> > > >you undoubtedly suffered and my sincerest regrets that your
>education
> >and
> > > >subsequent adulthood left you with a paucity of argument and a
>parched
> > > >spirit. Perhaps some things cannot be cultivated by government
>help
> >after
> > > >all.
> > > >
> > > > I would love to meet with you and try to understand the
>bitterness
> > > >you've evinced toward the poor, and I would be happy to tell you
>the
> > > >difference education has made in the lives of scores of my friends
>and
> > > >acquaintances in Washington who have entered adulthood with options
> >other
> > > >than picking berries or milking cows for a living. No need to
>debate
> > > >programs and policies -- I just want to hear from you, and I invite
>you
> >to
> > > >contact me off-list. And for those of you wondering how I, as a
> >Christian,
> > > >could avoid the model of Matthew 18 in my response to Ms. Kraut, I
> >would
> > > >point out that public comment often calls for public rebuke,
> >particularly
> > > >when the public rebuke might serve as an apologetic for (defense
>of)
> >the
> > > >Gospel.
> > > >
> > > > How ironic that we don't use the word "ingrate" to describe
>someone
> >who
> > > >has benefited utterly from the mercy of her Savior, and yet
>delights in
> > > >hurling invective at the poor He weeps for.
> > > >
> > > > keely emerine mix
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Pat Kraut
> > > > To: vision2020
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 2:48 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Leaving a few children behind
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I gotta tell ya that I think that this is one of those
>programs
> >that
> > > >needs
> > > > to fail. Paying them to stay in school proves nothing because
>they
> >are
> > > > passed through the grades without really learning anything. If
> >they
> > > >have a
> > > > real desire to stay in school they can without being paid for
>it.
> >I
> > > >know
> > > > that you all will have lots of comments and complaints about
>my
> > > >attitude but
> > > > I stayed in school even with bad circumstances and made it out
>on
> >my
> > > >own. I
> > > > know they can do it and appreciate their education even more.
>I am
> > > >also
> > > > tired of paying ingrates to go to schools that are only
>keeping
> >them
> > > >in to
> > > > pad their funds and not really teaching them anything.
> > > > Oh, here it comes!
> > > > Pat
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Melynda Huskey" <mghuskey at msn.com>
> > > > To: <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 11:22 AM
> > > > Subject: [Vision2020] Leaving a few children behind
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I found this news extremely disturbing . . I hope others who
>do
> >so
> > > >will
> > > > > contact legislators and express their concern. If the Bush
>tax
> >cuts
> > > >have
> > > > > been so beneficial to the economy, and if we are indeed in
>an
> > > >economic
> > > > > recovery, why are we reduced to cutting educational programs
>for
> > > >extremely
> > > > > vulnerable children--programs which would enhance the
>earning
> > > >potential
> > > > and
> > > > > productivity, and hence the tax base, of our nation?
> > > > >
> > > > > Melynda Huskey
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > AP Wire:
> > > > >
> > > > > DES MOINES, Iowa - Funding is being eliminated for a federal
> >program
> > > >that
> > > > > pays the children of migrant workers across the country to
>stay
> >in
> > > >school
> > > > > instead of working in fields.
> > > > >
> > > > > The Department of Labor program pays some young people
>minimum
> >wage
> > > >to
> > > > stay
> > > > > in school while migrating with their parents, who travel
>across
> >the
> > > > country
> > > > > looking for seasonal farm work.
> > > > >
> > > > > Coordinators in 31 states and Puerto Rico were told there
>was no
> > > >money to
> > > > > operate the program this year, leaving them to find
>alternate
> > > >sources,
> > > > > petition Congress or drop the program.
> > > > >
> > > > > "This is a remarkable abandonment of the most vulnerable
>youth,"
> > > >said
> > > > David
> > > > > Strauss, executive director of the Association of Farmworker
> > > >Opportunity
> > > > > Programs. "I don't know what's going to happen to those
>kids."
> > > > >
> > > > > Repeated telephone messages left this week for Labor
>Department
> > > >officials
> > > > > weren't returned.
> > > > >
> > > > > The Migrant and Seasonal Farmworker Youth Program is
>designed to
> > > >combat
> > > > > extraordinarily high dropout rates among seasonal migrant
>youth
> > > >workers
> > > > and
> > > > > the children of adult seasonal migrant workers. It also
>attempts
> >to
> > > >end
> > > > > cyclical poverty and low socio-economic levels plaguing that
> > > >population.
> > > > >
> > > > > The school dropout rate is understandable, Strauss said. "If
>you
> > > >look at
> > > > > their lives they're in multiple schools because their
>families
> > > >travel to
> > > > > work."
> > > > >
> > > > > Dropout rates among migrant youths are estimated at 60
>percent,
> > > >according
> > > > to
> > > > > the federal Office of Migrant Education in the U.S.
>Department
> >of
> > > > Education.
> > > > >
> > > > > Students are pulled from school early because their parents
>move
> >to
> > > >where
> > > > > work is more plentiful, disrupting their academic progress
>and
> > > >causing
> > > > many
> > > > > to fall behind or become discouraged.
> > > > >
> > > > > "They're pulled out of school or start back late," said
>Terry
> >Meek
> > > >of
> > > > > Proteus Inc., a nonprofit organization that oversees the
>Iowa
> > > >program.
> > > > "Some
> > > > > of them are here for June, July, August and part of
>September
> > > >because
> > > > > they're coming to work with seed corn."
> > > > >
> > > > > Despite the stipends, most of the young people still work
> >because
> > > >their
> > > > > families need supplemental income. The average income of an
> >adult
> > > >farm
> > > > > worker is less than $10,000 a year.
> > > > >
> > > > > Nationally, more than 2,500 youth ages 14 to 21 participated
>in
> >the
> > > > program
> > > > > last year. Many came from California, Texas and Florida.
> > > > >
> > > > > The program also provides job placement, tutoring,
>mentoring,
> > > >vocational
> > > > > training and career counseling services. It also funds child
> >care
> > > >and
> > > > health
> > > > > care.
> > > > >
> > > > > Four years ago, programs across the country were dividing a
> >healthy
> > > >$10
> > > > > million a year. This year, all funding was eliminated and
> > > >coordinators
> > > > were
> > > > > told to use money from last year until it dries up.
> > > > >
> > > > > ___
> > > > >
> > > > > On the Net:
> > > > >
> > > > > U.S. Department of Labor:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.dol.gov/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > U.S. Department of Education:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.ed.gov/
> > > > >
> > > > > Association of Farmworker Opportunity Programs
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.afop.org/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Melynda Huskey
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _____________________________________________________
> > > > > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > > > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _____________________________________________________
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