[Vision2020] RE: LOS aka Lost Our Slaves (Yes, this is long, but packed with info and li

[Tom Hansen]

Mr. Lawyer -

I am going to say this for the third (and final) time.  You stated that all
rapes are acts of sex.  I merely stated (twice) that not all rapes are acts
of sex.  Acquaintance rape is considered to be an act of sex and violent,
confrontational "lie in wait" rape is an act of control.  Both are
considered criminal acts.  At no time did I even imply that I condone either
one.  "No" means "No".

I can appreciate the theology of an individual whose personal values are
contrary to mine, PROVIDED (now here is where you commit the rest of this
statement to memory) (S)HE DOES NOT CONSIDER ME TO BE INTOLERABLE UNLESS I
ADOPT HIS/HER PERSONAL VALUES.

It is that simple.  End of discussion.

Tom Hansen

> -----Original Message-----
> From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com]On
> Behalf Of Mike Lawyer
> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 12:51 PM
> To: vision2020@moscow.com
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] RE: LOS aka Lost Our Slaves (Yes, this is
> long, but packed with info and li
>
>
> Tom,
>
> Your distinction between date rape and what you call
> confrontational rape is
> pretty interesting. Do you think date rape is a sexual act because it is
> filled with "sexual impulse and/or gratification"? But not a violent act?
>
> Are you then saying that date rape is okay because a guy can't
> help himself?
> Perhaps he was born that way? Maybe those urges are genetic?
>
> What makes us think that the urges that come over a man to cause him to
> commit a confrontational rape is not genetic?
>
> My comment about distinguishing and separating is that there are
> times when
> people can talk about different things that are different parts
> or sides of
> the same thing. (Rape is both violent and sexual). And sometimes
> things that
> appear to be the same thing are actually different things (You
> support Bill
> Clinton but do not support his sexual activities). In both these
> areas, you
> seem to have it backwards.
>
> Sex with a woman who is not consenting is rape whether it happens
> on a date
> or the guy hides in the woods (I would say that sex with a woman
> who is not
> your wife is a kind of rape as well, but that's another issue). In both
> cases it is violent and in both cases it is a sexual act. We can
> talk about
> both of these aspects, but we must never separate them.
>
> On the other hand a man can admire the theology of a racist
> without admiring
> his racism. And the good thing is that men can be smart enough to
> make those
> kinds of distinctions.
>
> You take care too. Thanks,
>
> Mike Lawyer
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Hansen [mailto:thansen@moscow.com]
> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 10:44 AM
> To: Mike Lawyer; vision2020@moscow.com
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] RE: LOS aka Lost Our Slaves (Yes, this is long,
> but packed with info and li
>
> Mike Lawyer stated:
>
> "It seems that many of you are unable to distinguish without
> separating. For
> example last week you told me that rape was not a sexual crime because it
> was a violent crime."
>
> If you recall from last week, I stated (or, at minimum, strongly implied)
> that there are at least two types of rape (three, if you count statutory
> rape); date (or acquaintance) rape which I consider to be a crime
> of sexual
> impulse and/or gratification and the violent, physically confrontational
> "lie in wait" variety of rape which (to me) is an act of control.
>
> I would also like to know how you would "distinguish" one act from another
> without "separating it".  Or is that too simple?
>
> Take care,
>
> Tom Hansen
> Not On The Palouse, Not Ever
>
> "Each time a man stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of
> others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of
> hope."
>
> Robert F. Kennedy
> (1925-1968, American Attorney General, Senator)
>
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