[Vision2020] RE: A Liberal World

Thu, 15 Jan 2004 12:31:28 -0800

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There are several Christian churches and societies that espouse nudism.  =
In the 50's and 60's most of the nudist colonies in southern California =
were Christian-based organizations.

Their reasoning is thus:  Once I have accepted Jesus Christ as my =
personal savior and declare my love for God, I am absolved from all =
original sin.  Among the fall-out from this belief is that one should no =
longer feel the shame of nudity;  in fact, it would be an insult to God =
and Jesus to do so.

Wayne Fox

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Crysta Falcon=20
  To: vision2020@moscow.com=20
  Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 12:18 PM
  Subject: [Vision2020] RE: A Liberal World

  Mike,

  Before this Liberal World string gets out of hand, if it hasn't =
already, I think a return to the issue is important.

  Your simple question is "What's the point to a liberal stance on =
clothing and sexuality?"=20

  I will highlight the main point of Dr. Geir's anecdote (as well as =
Ted's of Vancouver B.C.). The choice to wear or not wear clothing, as =
demonstrated by the previous examples, has led to less obsession over =
sexuality. That's not to say, nor has it been proven, everyone will run =
around topless, but rather the trend is toward fewer or at least =
healthier obsessions with what is "behind the curtain". Furthermore, as =
demonstrated here in Moscow, the few years that tops were optional for =
all hardly led to rampant breast baring (sorry Carl).=20

  To take the point further, that means less embarrassment toward =
sexuality in societies that do not taboo exposed anatomy. This could =
lead to a general more openness about STDs and pregnancy. (I'm =
speculating at this point. I really have no background in sociology or =
psychology; however. the facts kind of speak alone.) This could lead to =
more prevention of STD's and accidental pregnancy. That's all I'm =
saying.

  Crysta Falcon

  ----------------------------

  Original Message:

  Hello all,

  As I was reading Dr. Gier's letter regarding the progressive stance on =
clothing and sexuality in Denmark, it occurred to me that there seems to =
be a particular direction the liberal folks would like society to go.=20

  The question that springs to mind from all this is: If there weren't =
any Christians getting in the way of progress and the liberal folks =
could have everything they wanted with no restrictions, what would the =
world look like? And specifically, what would Moscow look like?

  Thanks,

  Mike Lawyer

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<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D2>There are several Christian =
churches and=20
societies that espouse nudism.&nbsp; In the 50's and 60's most of the =
nudist=20
colonies in southern California were Christian-based =
organizations.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D2>Their reasoning is thus:&nbsp; =
Once I have=20
accepted Jesus Christ as my personal savior and declare my love for God, =
I am=20
absolved from all original sin.&nbsp; Among the fall-out from this =
belief is=20
that one should no longer feel the shame of nudity;&nbsp; in fact, it =
would be=20
an insult to God and Jesus to do so.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D2>Wayne Fox</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dcfalcon@moscow.com =
href=3D"mailto:cfalcon@moscow.com">Crysta Falcon</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dvision2020@moscow.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 15, =
2004 12:18=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Vision2020] RE: A =
Liberal=20
  World</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DSection1>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'">Mike,</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Before this =
Liberal World=20
  string gets out of hand, if it hasn=92t already, I think a return to =
the issue=20
  is important.</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Your simple =
question is=20
  =93What=92s the point to a liberal stance on clothing and =
sexuality?=94=20
  </SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">I will highlight =
the main=20
  point of Dr. Geir=92s anecdote (as well as Ted=92s of =
</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'">Vancouver</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"> B.C.). The =
choice to wear=20
  or not wear clothing, as demonstrated by the previous examples, has =
led to=20
  <I><SPAN style=3D"FONT-STYLE: italic">less</SPAN></I> obsession over =
sexuality.=20
  That=92s not to say, nor has it been proven, everyone will run around =
topless,=20
  but rather the trend is toward fewer or at least healthier obsessions =
with=20
  what is =93behind the curtain=94. Furthermore, as demonstrated here in =

<SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'">Moscow<FONT=20
 face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">, the few years =
that tops=20
 were optional for all hardly led to rampant breast baring (sorry =
Carl).=20
 
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'">&nbsp;
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">To take the =
point further,=20
 that means less embarrassment toward sexuality in societies that do =
not taboo=20
 exposed anatomy. This could lead to a general more openness about STDs =
and=20
 pregnancy. (I=92m speculating at this point. I really have no =
background in=20
 sociology or psychology; however=85 the facts kind of speak alone.) =
This could=20
 lead to more prevention of STD=92s and accidental pregnancy. That=92s =
all I=92m=20
 saying.
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'">&nbsp;
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Crysta=20
 Falcon
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'">&nbsp;
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'">----------------------------
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Original=20
 Message:
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'">&nbsp;
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Hello=20
 all,
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'">&nbsp;
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'">&nbsp;
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'">&nbsp;
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">As I was reading =
Dr.=20
 Gier's letter regarding the progressive stance on clothing and =
sexuality in=20
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'">Denmark<FONT=20
 face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">, it occurred to =
me that=20
 there seems to be a particular direction the liberal folks would like =
society=20
 to go. 
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'">&nbsp;
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'">&nbsp;
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'">&nbsp;
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">The question =
that springs=20
 to mind from all this is: If there weren't any Christians getting in =
the way=20
 of progress and the liberal folks could have everything they wanted =
with no=20
 restrictions, what would the world look like? And specifically, what =
would=20
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'">Moscow<FONT=20
 face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"> look=20
 like?
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'">&nbsp;
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'">&nbsp;
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'">&nbsp;
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'">Thanks,
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'">&nbsp;
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'">&nbsp;
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'">&nbsp;
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Mike=20
 Lawyer</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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