[Vision2020] education first, then the other programs.
Joshua Nieuwsma
joshuahendrik@yahoo.com
Wed, 12 Nov 2003 22:19:56 -0800 (PST)
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Mr. Arnold,
I don't think that we should be spending so much on funding government research grants either.
Mr. Arnold, with respect, you are mistaken about the US government doing "more for the poor and disadvantaged then churches ever did or will do". If youi would like (you'll have to ask for it) I will do some research to find you the evidence that shows that the Christian Church began the idea of hospitals, of caring for the poor, and of feeding the hungry. We're only having this discussion because Christ is King of every culture and tongue and language, Mr. Arnold, and the Church is here to usher in the new kingdom.
yeah, churches do give far less than they ought to. And I'm not sure that they give more now than they did before the government behemoth gallumped in. Currently tithing is around 2.7% of income. If it was 10%, that would change all the facts and I think easily take care of the truly poor in this country (if they have a TV and Cable they either aren't poor or they are fiscally irresponsible. Either way the problem lies with them not with society).
Historically, governments have provided mainly 1) and 2) of your list. 3) is only done by governments that seek to become indispensible to their citizens. The Roman government became one of these in the end, and our government has done the same.
I didn't mention warfare expenditures because that is not what this discussion began over or what I want to talk about. It is a separate issue. Same with the deficit (about which economicists are in debate as to whether it is good or bad anyhow) and the war on terrorism. This discussion was on education. Let's keep it that way. The other programs need criticism, too, but education is something that is a clear failure. At least the bombs work. And by the way, I don't believe in corporate subsidies either. For economic reasons they are a bad idea. A company that is losing money ought to fail, in the scheme of things it either isn't needed in the market or is poorly managed and needs to be replaced.
Words are easy to twist, aren't they, Mr. Arnold. I never condemned the feeding of the poor, as you well know. And Christ wouldn't condemn the government for feeding the poor before He disciplined the Church for not doing so. As to whether my Lord sanctions subsidizing the rich, I would guess not, and as to spending a fortune and a half on a war, Christ the King is the one with the double edged sword, so what's your guess?
Not only can I imagine Christ saying that we should cut funding for public education, but I can more easily imagine Him disciplining his wayward sons and daughters in love for ever giving their children, who are His gift to them, up to the total power of the state for a fifth of their lives. He is doing that right now. The American Church is in a sorry state partly because we have kept the current education system going instead of denying the state the right to indoctrinate our children with worldly philosophy and hatred of God. For it is impossible to teach anything without teaching philosophy and a god along with it. The only question is, which? Clearly the state denies the true God, so there is only one other effective alternative: the father of lies.
As to electric chairs, let me remind you, Mr. Arnold, with respect, that God has control over your life, and has already decided how and when you will die. Your days, as with all other men, are numbered. I sincerely hope that you keep that in mind. God doesn't need to pull levers here on earth. He has complete control already.
sincerely,
Joshua Nieuwsma
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<DIV>
<DIV>Mr. Arnold,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I don't think that we should be spending so much on funding government research grants either.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Mr. Arnold, with respect, you are mistaken about the US government doing "more for the poor and disadvantaged then churches ever did or will do". If youi would like (you'll have to ask for it) I will do some research to find you the evidence that shows that the Christian Church began the idea of hospitals, of caring for the poor, and of feeding the hungry. We're only having this discussion because Christ is King of every culture and tongue and language, Mr. Arnold, and the Church is here to usher in the new kingdom.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>yeah, churches do give far less than they ought to. And I'm not sure that they give more now than they did before the government behemoth gallumped in. Currently tithing is around 2.7% of income. If it was 10%, that would change all the facts and I think easily take care of the truly poor in this country (if they have a TV and Cable they either aren't poor or they are fiscally irresponsible. Either way the problem lies with them not with society).</DIV>
<DIV><BR>Historically, governments have provided mainly 1) and 2) of your list. 3) is only done by governments that seek to become indispensible to their citizens. The Roman government became one of these in the end, and our government has done the same.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I didn't mention warfare expenditures because that is not what this discussion began over or what I want to talk about. It is a separate issue. Same with the deficit (about which economicists are in debate as to whether it is good or bad anyhow) and the war on terrorism. This discussion was on education. Let's keep it that way. The other programs need criticism, too, but education is something that is a clear failure. At least the bombs work. And by the way, I don't believe in corporate subsidies either. For economic reasons they are a bad idea. A company that is losing money ought to fail, in the scheme of things it either isn't needed in the market or is poorly managed and needs to be replaced.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Words are easy to twist, aren't they, Mr. Arnold. I never condemned the feeding of the poor, as you well know. And Christ wouldn't condemn the government for feeding the poor before He disciplined the Church for <EM>not</EM> doing so. As to whether my Lord sanctions subsidizing the rich, I would guess not, and as to spending a fortune and a half on a war, Christ the King is the one with the double edged sword, so what's your guess? </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Not only can I imagine Christ saying that we should cut funding for public education, but I can more easily imagine Him disciplining his wayward sons and daughters in love for ever giving their children, who are His gift to them, up to the total power of the state for a fifth of their lives. He is doing that right now. The American Church is in a sorry state partly because we have kept the current education system going instead of denying the state the right to indoctrinate our children with worldly philosophy and hatred of God. For it is impossible to teach anything without teaching philosophy and a god along with it. The only question is, which? Clearly the state denies the true God, so there is only one other effective alternative: the father of lies.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>As to electric chairs, let me remind you, Mr. Arnold, with respect, that God has control over your life, and has already decided how and when you will die. Your days, as with all other men, are numbered. I sincerely hope that you keep that in mind. God doesn't need to pull levers here on earth. He has complete control already.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>sincerely,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Joshua Nieuwsma</DIV></DIV><p><hr SIZE=1>
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