[Vision2020] MSD Pay and Tenure--a reply
Donovan Arnold
donovanarnold@hotmail.com
Sun, 29 Jun 2003 14:58:30 -0700
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<P>John.</P>
<P>Sorry, I thought you did have children in the public school system. Based on your assumption that I was involving myself in your FAMILY. Clearly I am not that this just a paranoid assumption that you have about the government and you inability to control your own life on you own. I have no problem doing this like most Americans despite the government. I do not mind paying taxes to support your children if you do choose to send them to school. I will not support your efforts to take my money to go to a private school, however.</P></DIV>
<P>I was angry because I was under the impression that you did send your kids to the public school and were whining about being tax dollars to help out. </P>
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<P>I don't believe in selective taxation, as you are suggesting should be done. It is a proven fact that taxation raises money in greater amounts and better meets the needs of the diverse population then "giving freely as individuals" as you suggest. </P>
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<P>We would have no roads, no military, no schools, no postal service, no internet, no hospitals, no country, if we did as you asked. </P>
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<P>You think we won the revolutionary won on voluntary taxation of the people? We didn't, we taxed people and they whined and complained. After we won, boy were they happy at the money they ended up saving.</P>
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<P>Nonetheless, I have no sympathy for you if you can afford to send your children to Logos or any other private school. Clearly you have money and are only rambling on make youself feel better. I pity you. The people that complain the most, are usually people that have the most. The people that complain the least, usually have the least.</P>
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<P>If you were REALLY concerned about the cost of taxes and were that broke, you couldn't afford to send them to Logos or whatever private school you may send them to. </P>
<P>I also want you to pay off the debt before getting one cent back in taxes. This is a major expense your generation has racked up and I don't think it is fair to leave your debt behind for others. </P>
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<P>Also, what disability services does Logos Provide, you never answered that question?</P>
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<P>Donovan J Arnold</P>
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<P><BR><BR> </P>
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<DIV></DIV>>From: John Harrell <JOHNBHARRELL@YAHOO.COM>
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<DIV></DIV>>To: Donovan Arnold <DONOVANARNOLD@HOTMAIL.COM>, dale@courtneys.us, vision2020@moscow.com
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<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] MSD Pay and Tenure--a reply
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<DIV></DIV>>Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 13:36:41 -0700 (PDT)
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<DIV></DIV>>Hello Mr. Donovan Arnold,
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<DIV></DIV>>Hmmmm, I seem to have struck a cord. I certainly did not mean to
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<DIV></DIV>>create such a froth.
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<DIV></DIV>>You said, "HOW DARE YOU, accuse ME, of being in YOUR POCKET BOOK. I
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<DIV></DIV>>am not the one with children in the school system. I am paying YOUR
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<DIV></DIV>>BUTT to have children in the school system. I am PAYING YOUR parents'
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<DIV></DIV>>medical care, and social security. YOU ARE THE ONE IN MY POCKET BOOK."
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<DIV></DIV>>You seem to be quite upset at being forced to pay for those services
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<DIV></DIV>>that someone else is enjoying.
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<DIV></DIV>>So either, pay happily or do something about it.
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<DIV></DIV>>I would offer this as a possible way of dealing with this payment issue.
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<DIV></DIV>>How about we all pay for the services, as you describe above, out of our
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<DIV></DIV>>own pocket? You can choose where you want to give and I can choose where
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<DIV></DIV>>I want to give - instead of a socialistic wealth distribution scheme. No
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<DIV></DIV>>one is forcibly taking your money from you, and then you don't have to
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<DIV></DIV>>be so upset.
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<DIV></DIV>>Choice, I am all for it! Diversity, I am all for it! Diversity of services
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<DIV></DIV>>and choice of where we decide to give, no forced payment.
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<DIV></DIV>>When people "choose" where they will or will not give their money; they do
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<DIV></DIV>>it happily, cheerfully - not in a sarcastic, hateful manner, as you seem to
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<DIV></DIV>>have shown above.
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<DIV></DIV>>Cheers!
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<DIV></DIV>>John Harrell
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<DIV></DIV>>--- Donovan Arnold <DONOVANARNOLD@HOTMAIL.COM>wrote:
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<DIV></DIV>>John,
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<DIV></DIV>>You are the MOST egocentric, self-centered, greedy, unappreciative, selfish man I have
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<DIV></DIV>>ever met!
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<DIV></DIV>>HOW DARE YOU, accuse ME, of being in YOUR POCKET BOOK. I am not the one with children in
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<DIV></DIV>>the school system. I am paying YOUR BUTT to have children in the school system. I am
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<DIV></DIV>>PAYING YOUR parents' medical care, and social security. YOU ARE THE ONE IN MY POCKET
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<DIV></DIV>>BOOK.
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<DIV></DIV>>You are more concerned about yourself then you are your OWN CHILDREN AND PARENTS (sic)!
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<DIV></DIV>>What happened when your grandparents gave you a check for your birthday, did you punch
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<DIV></DIV>>your grandma in stomach and kick your grandpa in the groin?
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<DIV></DIV>>I am curious why YOU think I, making less then 30% what you do, should have to give you
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<DIV></DIV>>money? If you don't like that then why don't you write me a check back?????????????
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<DIV></DIV>>Then I can give the money back to a family that will not attack me for it and accuse ME
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<DIV></DIV>>of costing them more money.
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<DIV></DIV>>I and thousands of other Moscow residents are subsidizing YOU and your FAMILY. You better
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<DIV></DIV>>start being appreciative of that FACT!
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<DIV></DIV>>You are nothing but a whiner that is cutting off your nose despite your face. You keep
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<DIV></DIV>>voting for these politicians that give tax cuts to the rich and wondering why your taxes
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<DIV></DIV>>keep going up. HELLO! Vote for someone that gives a tax hike on the rich so the debt goes
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<DIV></DIV>>down and you get something for your money instead of spending it all just on the interest
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<DIV></DIV>>on the debt. Vote for people that will spend billions on putting people together in this
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<DIV></DIV>>country rather then spending trillions blowing people apart in another.
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<DIV></DIV>>I don't mind giving my money up to educate your children, dispite my poverty status, but
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<DIV></DIV>>I will be damned if I get attacked for doing so.
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<DIV></DIV>>Donovan J Arnold
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<DIV></DIV>> >From: John Harrell
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<DIV></DIV>> >To: Donovan Arnold , dale@courtneys.us, vision2020@moscow.com
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<DIV></DIV>> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] MSD Pay and Tenure--a reply
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<DIV></DIV>> >Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 23:02:47 -0700 (PDT)
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<DIV></DIV>> >Mr. Donovan Arnold,
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<DIV></DIV>> >You have to be kidding again. This is so hilarious. You really need to
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<DIV></DIV>> >start thinking.
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<DIV></DIV>> >"Yes, and millions more are doing it for free, it is called public school."
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<DIV></DIV>> >For Free!?!? You are joking!
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<DIV></DIV>> >Why is it all liberals think everything is free if it comes from the government?
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<DIV></DIV>> >Free services for this, free services for that, free free free! Think again. It
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<DIV></DIV>> >is not free. The only thing that is being freed here is my money from my pocket.
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<DIV></DIV>> >Please Mr. Arnold, STOP FREEING ME FROM MY MONEY!
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<DIV></DIV>> >I work hard to provide for my family, but how am I supposed to provide for my
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<DIV></DIV>> >family if you keep freeing me from my money? How am I supposed to provide for my
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<DIV></DIV>> >elderly parents if you keep freeing me from my money? How are my elderly parents
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<DIV></DIV>> >supposed to be live if you keep freeing them from their money? More levies, more
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<DIV></DIV>> >bonds, more free services, more free schools, yea, right, stop joking around!
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<DIV></DIV>> >Get outta my pocketbook, get outta my family.
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<DIV></DIV>> >Liberals - wrong in the past, wrong now, and wrong for the future!
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<DIV></DIV>> >Cheers!
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<DIV></DIV>> >John Harrell
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<DIV></DIV>> >From: John Harrell
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<DIV></DIV>> >To: Donovan Arnold , dale@courtneys.us, vision2020@moscow.com
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<DIV></DIV>> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] MSD Pay and Tenure--a reply
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<DIV></DIV>> >Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 23:02:47 -0700 (PDT)
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<DIV></DIV>> >Mr. Donovan Arnold,
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<DIV></DIV>> >You have to be kidding again. This is so hilarious. You really need to
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<DIV></DIV>> >start thinking.
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<DIV></DIV>> >
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<DIV></DIV>> >"Yes, and millions more are doing it for free, it is called public school."
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<DIV></DIV>> >For Free!?!? You are joking!
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<DIV></DIV>> >
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<DIV></DIV>> >Why is it all liberals think everything is free if it comes from the government?
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<DIV></DIV>> >Free services for this, free services for that, free free free! Think again. It
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<DIV></DIV>> >is not free. The only thing that is being freed here is my money from my pocket.
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<DIV></DIV>> >Please Mr. Arnold, STOP FREEING ME FROM MY MONEY!
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<DIV></DIV>> >I work hard to provide for my family, but how am I supposed to provide for my
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<DIV></DIV>> >family if you keep freeing me from my money? How am I supposed to provide for my
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<DIV></DIV>> >elderly parents if you keep freeing me from my money? How are my elderly parents
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<DIV></DIV>> >supposed to be live if you keep freeing them from their money? More levies, more
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<DIV></DIV>> >bonds, more free services, more free schools, yea, right, stop joking around!
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<DIV></DIV>> >Get outta my pocketbook, get outta my family.
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<DIV></DIV>> >
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<DIV></DIV>> >Liberals - wrong in the past, wrong now, and wrong for the future!
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<DIV></DIV>> >Cheers!
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<DIV></DIV>> >John Harrell
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<DIV></DIV>> >--- Donovan Arnold wrote:
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<DIV></DIV>> >Dale,
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<DIV></DIV>> >I am glad you broke up your responses into many emails. Otherwise I don't think I could
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<DIV></DIV>> >handle so many misconceptions and twists of the truth in one email.
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<DIV></DIV>> > >"*If* the cost driver of education were the children, then it's senseless
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<DIV></DIV>> > >that inflation-adjusted spending has *increased* by over 100% in that same
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<DIV></DIV>> > >time."
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<DIV></DIV>> >This is where another one of assumptions is WRONG! It is not children that causes the
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<DIV></DIV>> >cost of of school to rise. It is the cost of things related to the children. You cannot
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<DIV></DIV>> >compare 1992 to 2003. You seem to think that "child enrollment" is the only factor that
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<DIV></DIV>> >should affect costs of education. This is like saying that rent should go down in
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<DIV></DIV>> >proportion to the number of children you have in the house. My parents are paying 4x in
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<DIV></DIV>> >costs of rent, utilities, and medical costs that they were in 1986 when they had 3
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<DIV></DIV>> >children in the house. Gee, perhaps they should go without medical treatment, housing or
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<DIV></DIV>> >utilities.
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<DIV></DIV>> >Things have changed a bit since then, and other costs such as medical, housing, rent,
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<DIV></DIV>> >utilities and quality of life have changed since 1992.
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<DIV></DIV>> >"How odd. Instate tuition at UI is $3,000 per year; out of State tuition at
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<DIV></DIV>> > >UI is $10,000 per year; and MSD's "tuition" in FY01 was $8,772 and is
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<DIV></DIV>> > >projected to have been $10,112 in FY03. That means that it is cheaper to
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<DIV></DIV>> > >give someone a B.A. than it is to put them from 9th to 12th grade."
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<DIV></DIV>> >This like the twisting of all your other statistics is WRONG!
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<DIV></DIV>> >Let's compare the two shall we:
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<DIV></DIV>> >Cost of food to a student at UI 120 meals a month: $1200
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<DIV></DIV>> >Tuition and fees: $3144
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<DIV></DIV>> >Books: $650
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<DIV></DIV>> >
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<DIV></DIV>> >Required medical insurance: $641
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<DIV></DIV>> >
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<DIV></DIV>> >
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<DIV></DIV>> >Parking permit $65
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<DIV></DIV>> >
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<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >Portion paid by the tax payer: $10,000
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >Number of Hours spend in class: 15
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >Total Cost: $15,700 for minimum of 15 hours of class for 8 months of classes. Or about
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >$500 a credit hour (dived by two semesters assuming 15 credits a semester). Estimated
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >cost of attendance in 2006: Over $20,000
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >Total Cost of attending to student Public elementary school $0
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >Total Cost of attending one pupil to Public elementary school to tax payer $8777
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >Total hours in school 30 hours of class per week for nine months
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >Total cost $146 per credit how hour. That is a 300% less cost then a BA degree.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >"How is that possible? You've *got* to be kidding! Non-parochial private
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >schools all across the country do it every day. You can get a top of the
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<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >line education for under $3k/year. And homeschoolers across the country are
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >doing it on a daily basis."
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<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >Yes, and millions more are doing it for free, it is called public school.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >Donovan J Arnold
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